HOw to Convince PC people that macs and FCP are better

I'm trying to convincve the company that I'm working for that buying an apple system with final cut studio is a much better solution than the premire sysytem we have now. I'm looking for the cheapest option available that would be able to control and capture SD betacam. Any reasons that you can think of would be greatly appreciated. I'm sick of using preimire.

If they're gazing intently at The Bottom Line, you're dead. Between the cheap platforms, free software, and second tier support, you can build an editor for far less money on a PC than you can on a Mac.

It won't be near as fun to use and the parts won't be as well integrated, but it will be cheap and it can be forced to work. There are three Premiere systems in the building right now and almost universally, they do a lot of the same jobs as we do at far less cost.

The next Avid system upgrade will involve taking the Mac out and putting a PC in. We assume because it's far cheaper to do that.

We have an SGI Flame replacement running in the corner of the machine room. It's running under Linux on a PC.

Koz

What kind of stuff to you edit? If Premiere works, use it. If it doesn't, move up to FCP.

Determine your needs, if FCP fills them, great. If Premiere fills it, well, then FCP will be a tough sell.

FCP is used on a few features, more than a few network and cable TV shows, plenty of commercials and just about every movie trailer you see.

The edit system you use is dependant on the type of work you use. If you need FCP, than pitching it shouldn't be that hard. And the integration of Motion, Livetype, and Soundtrack...all for $1300....can't be beat.

Ditto that. FCP Studio is the best bang for your buck out there. Your first selling point would be to explain the functionality included in it beyond just the editing software.

For BetaSP you would need a capture card. Have a look at aja.com for the Io LA model. Easy. Solid. Reliable. Gets you in and out of a Beta deck with device control and includes component monitoring.

You should be able to locate an inexpensive G5 dual with a decent graphics card(more than sufficient for SD), or a second-hand one. Prices on used G5's are coming down with the quads out and intel machines slated for next year.

The one thing PC people always leave out of the equation when they claim PCs are cheaper is the set up time for those boxes. They went with 6 cheap Dell boxes were I work in June of this year. It took until August to get them all up and running. Three of our production people sent a good amount of time working on these systems. Now, I will grant we had a number of projects to complete in that time, but 2 monthes is along time to not have the full system up and running. (Note I am not the PC Tech guy.)

Now, how much extra do you think it cost for those computers to have three of our production personal working on those machines trying to get them to work ? And they were not working on projects when trying to get the PCs up and running. What did that cost us ?

The problems with these machines has been such, they have gone and bought new cases already to replace the ones bought in June. How is that cheaper over the long run ?

One of the major slow downs with Premeire is the whole conforming of audio Premiere forces on you. There is nothing like sitting around waiting for audio to conform with a deadline looming. Yeah that makes your work flow faster.

<<<How is that cheaper over the long run ?>>>

It's not. It's also completely irrelevant since "The Long Run" doesn't show up on the Capitol Appropriation line item of a budget.

The Long Run shows up in the TCO item way down in the foggy My-Eyes-Glaze-Over part of the budget that nobody ever pays any attention to because it's variable/fudgable.

Besides, if you set off a bomb in the parking lot right now, how many PC IT people would you hit? How many Mac people? Support is a phone call away as opposed to trying to get someone to come out and look at your Mac. The accounting people see the 10% product saturation number that we tend to ignore.

If you're already a Mac shop, and most creative production houses are, it will be much eaier to point out the ease with which you can share work between the machines and cross-help that you can give each other (and this insanely helpful forum). If you're not, it will be a very serious uphill battle.

Koz

Any PC's got dual core x 2 processors shipping today?

Hey, If they want to use Premier Pro for editing , then they will get what they pay for. Final Cut Pro is NOT without it's problems! You need to research what each application can do and can not do. If Premier Pro is good enough to produce what you need, then let it alone.

Investing in all new hardware and software is very costly, and not necessary unless you are absolutely convinced that the other editor tools will increase productivity or some other cost factor.

<<<Investing in all new hardware and software is very costly>>>

And because we're looking at this from the outside world, is it possible that you're just working in the wrong shop?

Koz

premire is a total waste of time--

I had to use it for 2 years at a TV station
It was on a Sony Vaio and would Crash
on a good day 5 times -on a bad day maybe 30--


premire is jamed with bugs--that never get fixed-
check out premire users site--its always the same
questions over and over and no fixes--

The final bug that caused station to drop premire 6.5
was anytime graphix were used in time line
the time code on tape would stop
and make a totally useless tape-
months went by with no fix--

Constant Cuss Fest in edit bay--

I started taking projects home and doing them
on my very old Mac and my output went
up 70%--

The new station owners threw the premire
software in the trash--
I wanted to stomp on the disks--
but I did not feel comfortable doing
it in front of new owners--LOL

The way I look at it--
If you are going to spend the time to
learn a edit program-- it should be one that
works well and is used by others--Jay--

How does one quantify the money lost on downtime and maintenance? Bean counters often don't see that until deadlines are missed and former clients are walking out the door.

If you have facility with the staff than can maintain it and contingency workflow, you can put together really good Windows NLE workflow otherwise Macs are much easier to maintain and there's online communities like this that will help for free.

That information is a bit old. Premiere Pro was rebuilt completely and bears no resemblance to the code that was in Premiere 6.5 or earlier.



All the best,

Tom

In my 11 years experience as offline & online editor I have run several systems either at home and/or work and often at work more than one suite from various manufacturer's - over the years I have used:

Lightworks - Turbo & HeavyWorks (4 years) PC

Avid - Composer, Express, Symphony (6 years) PC & Mac

EditDV (2 years) Mac

Sony EditStation (2 hours - I hated it)

Media 100 with Premiere software & Media 100 software (1 year) PC & Mac

Premiere 4, 5, 6 & Pro (5 Years) PC

FCP 2, 3, 4 & 5 (4 years) on various systems with AJA IO, Cinéwave, Kona 2 & Blackmagic Decklink.

In my opinion FCP is the single best program overall for editing - it's just so much more than most people ever need - not to mention the fact that the Macs in every system performed much more reliably than any of the PC offerings. Meaning less downtime - more productivity - less stress.

If it is cost you are looking at - FCP is the answer for a reliable entry level quality system.

Seriously it is the ONLY option you should consider until you get into the big boy(or girl) arena and spend many tens of thousands, even then I would rather a high end FCP system.

The AJA IO will suit you perfectly.

Also you can network or hook up your Mac to the internet without the worry that reading your email will mean a complete reformat and reinstall of your HDD! In the last 2 years alone the PC's have been reinstalled at least 2x each!

--------

The only things I would have on FCP are:

The native HDCAM CODEC from the SONY EditStation
The Avid Symphony Nitris Color Corrector & Secondary Color Corrector
and
The LightWorks Touch controller - since moving onto Avid, FCP, etc, I have never been able to edit really fast without 2 hands...

On LightWorks I used to edit with one hand and slurp caffeine based media essential drinks at the same time without impairing performance!

--------

Ben


PS - get FCP


PPS - get FCP


PPPS - I think you get my point!





For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

"...I'm looking for the cheapest option available that would be able to control and capture SD betacam."

There's that word again...CHEAP. That word fries my nads. Cheap Boss = cheap goods. You can rule out Macs with that word, partner. Macs aren't CHEAP...they're GREAT. You want CHEAP? Buy a PC for $500 and Premiere. You want GREAT? Get a Quad Core G5, After Effects and FC Studio and create ANYTHING. Here's a nice write-up from Dave Nagel @ macdesignpro.com. It includes benchmarks listing the Quad beating some of the fastest PC's in the world:

[www.macdesignpro.com]

If you took a poll, I'll bet the farm that Premiere doesn't hold a 2% Marketshare of edit suites in the industry. Do you wanna pinch pennies...or get a workstation that...well...WORKS?



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.