Title Super causing jumps in background motion...HELP!

Hey Fellow Users,

Really weird thing is going on, and I've got to deliver the final product ASAP.

I'm running FCP 5.04, on a G5 dual core 2Ghz, with 2Gb Ram, running pic of a ESata RAID.

I'm cutting a project in DVCPRO-HD. Almost locked pic. I have created titles in photoshop, that I have saved as PNG files (with clear alpha channel).

I am trying to super the titles onto a moving crane shot. (show opener). When I place the titles onto a separate video track, everything looks clear, and the text looks crisp. With one problem .....

When I fully render out the sequence in HiQuality, I noticed that as the title fades up it causes what looks like a jump in the underlying video shot (the crane shot). It is then fine during the stay of the card, until the fade out starts, and causes another jump upon its exit. And it is like this for every card....AAARGRGG...can't seem to figure it out. I tried changing from using "Cross Fades" to "Additive Fades" to "Non Additive fades" to "Fade outs". No matter what I do, I can't seem to get the BG pic not to jump as the title fades up or down. This also seems to happen with the Built in Text Generator of FCP.

What am i doing wrong? Yikes....

Sunman

<<<What am i doing wrong?>>>

Could be viewing it on the Canvas. You know the Canvas plays tons of games to show you a simulacrum of the final show. It's never very accurate at the best of times and sometimes it downright sucks worms.

Export a small portion of the error as a final and see if it's still wrong on the final display system.

Koz

Use key frames to fade up and down.

good luck!

Kevin



"A problem can never be solved by the same consciousness that created it"
Einstein

Hey Guys,

So I exported a section of the title opener to tape, and sure enough, it's on the final master.

I just don't understand why one video track should affect the other in that way...

Kevin, when you mention keyframing, are you suggesting Keyframing opacity changes?

sunman

Yes, keyframe the opacity changes. Its a workaround, but it might get your project out on time and let you troubleshoot later. If your titles are all the same you should be able to copy the first clip, lasso all the text xlips, then 'paste attributes' and select 'opacity' to do them all quickly.

Do you have another layer between the two, or is it just two layers total?

It's just two layers. The bottom one literally just has this one, long uninterrupted take. While the second layer has the PNG files, with their fade up and fade outs...

I'll try the opacity changes...hope that'll work. It just bugs me not to know the why of certain things.

Sunman

<<< keyframe the opacity changes. >>>

Did that work?

<<This also seems to happen with the Built in Text Generator of FCP.>>>

That's the one that bothers me. There's no shortage of oddball things that can happen with imported graphics, but to have Final Cut's own generator fail......

<<<DVCPRO-HD>>>

Which HiDef?

<<<as the title fades up it causes what looks like a jump in the underlying video>>>

And as you proved, it *is* actually in the shot. Which way does the picture go? Is it just a move, or does the picture change size, too?


I'm kind of surprised nobody hit this one yet; whenever Final Cut exhibits surreal behavior, everybody screams, "Trash Your Preferences."

Nobody screamed this time, but you certainly have surreal behavior.

Koz

Haven't had a chance to try the Opcaity changes yet (suite is currently occupied)

i agree Koz, I thought for sure that FCPs generator would be okay...but low and behold...

I'm cutting native DVCPRO-HD 24p. (shot with the HVX200).

The underlying shot is a vertical boom down on a crane, which then eventually pans as it reaches the ground. I checked the crane shot thoroughly, and on its own, it does not stutter, or jump. It jumps only when i super a title on top of it. The pic doesn't change size at all during the jump, it simply acts as if you've removed a few frames from an otherwise smooth move.

In terms of trashing Prefs... are you suggesting just dumping that one file, or using the FCP Rescue app?

Sunman

<<<removed a few frames >>>

Oh......

So you don't get a straight picture position shift error, you really do get an "edit" and time change at the shift point.

You can clearly only get one of those. If you have two, then one of them should give you a blank frame or two. You can't razor blade a segment out of the middle and shift it without there being a hole somewhere.

Do the frame codes track correctly if you step through both jumps one frame at a time?

<<<In terms of trashing Prefs... are you suggesting just dumping that one file, or using the FCP Rescue app?>>>

It used to be multiple files. Is it only one now? I think what's important is to Change Something and see what happens.

By the way, my fuzzy-warm right brain is screaming time base errors--24.00/23.98. That will send you straight back to scrambled preferences.

Koz

You really should not be using the legacy text generators anymore. Use Boris Title 3D at the very least.

Also, as others have said, keyframe opacity for title fades NOT dissolves.

Hook up your video monitor as you work, not afterward. What you see is what you get (on the video monitor).



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Thanks all...

Will try keyframing opacity first thing tomorrow. Will also try to run FCP Rescue, to trash prefs and see what happens..


Keep you posted...

Sunman

Are you folks sure what's happening isn't a RGB/YUV color space thing?

Try changing your timeline settings to 10 bit and re-render

This sounds like the alpha is coming in as RGB and forcing a render error in the color space.

With all due respect - keyframing opacity will help if the shift is in the title color - or in covering an imperfect alpha . But I don't see how it's gonna do anything for underlying shifts that are popping in and out on the edit point. That points squarely to the render color space doesn't it?

Ian

<<<shifts that are popping in and out on the edit point. >>>

This is where we need sunman to be surgically accurate when he tells us what the problem is. Yes, if you get a character of frame change, then it could very well be colorspace related. If the edit point now has the *wrong frame*, it could be something completely different.

Koz

Hey Guys,

Okay...so here's the latest. I removed all "cross-fades" and replaced them with opactiy keyframes. This did not solve the problem. And just for clarification, the problem is that when I super-impose a PNG file (that was created in Photoshop in RGB mode, with clear alpha), on a single continuous un-edited piece of DVCPRO-HD video, the underlying video seems to jump on the in and out points of the PNG cards, not while the cards are on, nor while they are off. The jump looks as if frames were removed from the background shot causing a "bump" in an otherwise smooth shot.

I do think IAN is on to something though. I switched my sequence video processing from "High Precision YUV" to "RGB only", then went back to my sequence. I noticed that all the areas with the super-cards had a green bar above them allowing me to view it in real time. When I did, the bump WAS GONE !! So I was about to cry a victory dance and send IAN flowers, when I noticed that the titles would now pop a bit in the middle of the fades. (although the background motion is now smooth). So I thought that all I would need to do would be to fully render it and I would be done. Well, I fully rendered it, now the PNG alpha card fades look great, but the BLOODY BUMP is back !!! Arrgrghhh...

Why would the real-time preview not cause a bump in the BG video, but the fully rendered sequence bring the bump back? Is this still a color space issue?

Sunman

"Why would the real-time preview not cause a bump in the BG video, but the
fully rendered sequence bring the bump back? Is this still a color space
issue?"

No need for flowers - but YES

You are almost certainly seeing an RGB/YUV conflict

I've not worked a lot with the codec you are using. I'd try going to a higher bit rate - or dividing out the alpha - or changing to a PSD file (although I've had no problems with PNG's - I've not done alphas with them)

Ian

Not sure if this is related to your issue, but I was working with DVCPro HD clips two weeks ago which also had similar problems. I had two copies of the same shot, on two tracks, staggered by three to four frames. The top layer has Motion Blur on it and is also put into a different Composite mode (Screen, I think). The idea is to get a "double vision" effect. But when the top, composite-mode layer is faded out either using a transition or opacity keyframes, I get a jump in the image. There were no stray opacity keyframes (eg. not quite going to zero) either. I fixed the issue, but I'm interested in finding out whether other people have had similar issues working with DVCPro HD with regards to alpha channels and superimposition.

Hey Derek,

Can you tell me how you fixed the issue? Because I have yet been unable to. I can't go to 10 bit for some reason, my video processing options are "RGB only", "8 bit YUV", or "High Precision YUV". None of which have solved my problem.

your symptoms sound identical to mine, so I would love to know how you fixed it.

Thanks,

sunman

> Can you tell me how you fixed the issue?

The way I fixed my problem would only work if you were also working with different composite modes as I was. When I had the top layer cross dissolve or opacity-ramp to an empty track, the image jumped. So I made a copy of the bottom layer, put it on the top track, and had the top layer cross dissolve to the clip and the problem went away. But it may not be the same problem as yours. Have you checked to make sure your top layers aren't in a strange composite mode?