Not a rant, not a request, just an observation

OK, I just returned from a five day onsite edit for a client's convention, editing candids, sots and clips for playback each day, all of which was shot entirely on Sony HDV. My first real intro to this format, BTW.

First, a special thanks to Jerry Hoffman (and this forum) for helpful tips on outputting...saved my butt and that's no lie.

Now the observation:

The software is about a year behind the hardware at this point...the very act of "conforming" gave me a very bad flashback to the mid-90's (and earlier, truth be told) to when EVERYTHING had to be rendered. HDV looks great - but dear God what a pain it is to get things back to tape...I emphasize the word PAIN. You need it faster? Max out your CPU and RAM, otherwise yer screwed.

Jerry's tips included using the Apple Intermediate Codec to capture, but this option removes any batch capturing ability (leaving you with the equivalent of "Capture Now" I eventually came up with exporting the edited videos as self-contained QT, same settings, to the internal drive, closing all open sequences and making a new project just for playback. This reduced "conforming hell" to practically nothing, as the sequence is seen as one clip...the sequence was 3:38 - this took 29 minutes of exporting, 1 minute to conform...

ARG.

Maybe I am spoiled by just dumping things out to tape from the timeline (in fact, I know I'm spoiled) but this is 2006 guys, not 1996. Print to Video is a function I rarely use - but it appears as if I'll be using it every time for HDV for the forseeable future, at least for this particular client.

As the Firesign Theater would say: "Forward! Into the Past!"

Blame the makers of HDV. It is a very difficult format to work with.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

You can't blame Apple for Sony. The fact that Apple or an NLE supports HDV in any way is remarkable considering how difficult it is to work with. The fact you can capture it and edit it is an engineering feat. Tis the way it is if you want to use HDV. Course it will get faster as machines get faster. Way it is with everything.

Michael Horton
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<<<very difficult>>

What he said.

HDV is fascinating. How do you get reasonable looking High Definition television onto a DV tape? One way is to make the video frame size on the tape very different from the one on the timeline, and then you compress what's left to death. A great number of people (including us) ran out and bought/rented HDV cameras to shoot reference footage or actual final video for clients. Much of that work went undone or unaccepted when we found out the severe shortcuts that were taken.

Koz

This is a good observation. I was frustrated myself when I realized that what I was shooting with my Sony Z HDV camera was not viewable on most TV screens.

The world is rushing to HD but there are not enough HD TVs for showing my work. It will take years before enough stations broadcast HD and when they do it will take more years for people to afford buying the relatively expensive HD sets.

So what's the big deal about HD for me as an independent filmmaker?

.... never mind how hard it is to edit, etc. What's HDV for? It's too little too soon. LOL

One good thing is that this mini HD format is about $70,000 cheaper ... the camera is about $5,000.

It is a highly successful Sony marketing effort. If you believe the ads, this camera will allow you to come down off the mount in a cloud of smoke with HiDef stone tablets in each hand.

*Everybody* I know lusted after one--for a while. Unlike the iPod, this product didn't work so well.


I "went" HiDef a while back. I bought a fully tricked out Mac Mini ($2,000) and an EyeTV Hybrid ($150). Plug the output into my computer monitor and the earphone jack into my killer sound system. No, it's not four feet wide, but it's a glass monitor and you can taste the colors. It's off-air roof antenna only and free.

I can record the shows and play them back whenever. I can stop any time and make a sandwich. I think I can edit the shows as well.

I can't do more than two channels of sound yet and QuickTime Export will have to wait for the next software revision.

Koz

"It will take years before enough stations broadcast HD and when they do it will take more years for people to afford buying the relatively expensive HD sets. "

I gotta disagree about this. All networks NOW broadcast a HD version of at least their primetime schedule. I have "Direct TV". There's atleast a dozen HD channels available today.

Prices are dropping drastically on your average plasma or LCD screen. Further, the size is increasing. (50" is the new 42" Spend a few minutes this weekend parked outside your local "Circuit City" or "Best Buy". You're gonna see thoses big boxes flying out the door.

HD is here now and picking up steam. 2007 is going to be the "tipping point" for transition from SD. Price, availabilty and technology are all coming together to make 2007 the year we make SD seem like your grandfather's TV. (Blue Ray anyone?)

What's all this got to do with HDV? Only that all those people with new HD plasma monitors are gonna want to record their kids in HD now. That translates into more people using this format... which may mean more development of the post side of things.

mark

<which may mean more development of the post side of things>

...which brings us back full circle to my original point. The software is so far behind the hardware its to the point of distraction, as well as making all of us who are damn fast at editing look like idiots trapped in quicksand when we can't output the program to tape "like you used to" (a direct quote from my client).

IMHO.

It just is the way it is. And all we are talking about here is conform. That really isn't much to complain about considering the fact you can edit this stuff natively via firewire. Don't want to conform, then convert it on the fly using a Kona or BM card during capture. Your client is just having a bad day and is trying hard to find something to complain about. I just don't see this as even a valid complaint. In MY humble opinion.




Michael Horton
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Amen, Mike. Testify, brother!!

You want to use HDV? Deal with the limitations. As Mike mentioned...there's not much to complain or "rant" about when considering what you get with this amazing low-cost format. Just the fact that FCP NATIVELY captures & edits this format is a coupe in itself. Get a faster machine & a suped-up Kona card & your gold.

Blows DV out of the water IMHO

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

You need to use the right tools for the job. In this case, you need fast, daily turnaround of edited material for playback that day or next. You should have known going in the format they would be shooting. If that format was HDV you've got to know that it's render intensive in order to get back out to tape. It's not easy recompiling all those broken GOP's. Something has to give. In order to get around the MPEG bottleneck you should have digitized via a Kona card (any variety) into a different format. We generally choose to work in DVCProHD when capturing HDV. With this format there is no need for rendering. When the cut is finished just output to whatever playback format the AV crew at the convention has setup. This is all done in REAL TIME, with no rendering required, except for certain filters and effects.
Again, it's all about using the right tools for the job.

Michael Alberts
Ambidextrous Productions

Michael Horton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can't blame Apple for Sony. The fact that
> Apple or an NLE supports HDV in any way is
> remarkable considering how difficult it is to work
> with. The fact you can capture it and edit it is
> an engineering feat. Tis the way it is if you want
> to use HDV. Course it will get faster as machines
> get faster. Way it is with everything.

Wait until you start getting clients in who shot with the new XDCam HD cameras. That is also HDV (mpeg-2 long GOP) but the means of ingest is not ready for primetime. None-the-less, they are selling these systems by the hundreds so get ready.