unmounting FW drives before powering down.

seems that john foley and i are in another head to head over whether firewire is a good choice for FCP - (youve all read those so i wont elaborate...)

but my question is this.

on the occasion that i do shut my machines down for the day i follow this procedure:

1. close all apps
2. shut down machine
3. [after machine is off] power down monitors
4. THEN power down all external drives

some people say that you should unmount drives before powering down? that seems like redundant effort to me... anyone have any thoughts on whether this could have any effect on long-term external drive success or failure...???

> some people say that you should unmount drives before powering down? that seems like
> redundant effort to me...

The way I see it, ejecting the drive before shutting down OS means I actually see the communication between the drive and the computer wrap up properly. And I've never had a single drive of mine (ie. a drive used only by me) conk out on me. So I'm gonna stick to my method.

But it may well be superstition.

Besides, if you shut down the computer first, you may well forget to shut off the power for the drive and then it'd be left running through the weekend. It's one mouse click and one press of APPLE-E. I wouldn't call that too much work!


www.derekmok.com

The OS should shut down all apps and drives and "ship the heads" on shutdown. So simply pressing shutdown after saving should suffice.

However always wait until the Mac OS bluescreen goes completely and you hear the HDDs & Fans wind down, then turn off your peripherals such as HDDs, Monitors, Speakers et al.

I would however shut the HDDs down before monitor or speakers.

USB devices are more forgiving if they are unplugged without ejecting or shuting down but you should eject them if they show on your desktop.

Firewire Decks & Cameras need not be on or off when you connect them to your Mac.

eSATA doesn't always like ejecting and mounting like firewire connected HDDs on the current builds of Mac OS X. So I recommended you turn them on BEFORE your boot the Mac and turn them off AFTER you shut down. If you need to reconnect I find it most reliable to shutdown, connect the eSATA and then turn on again.

SCSI should always be turned on before and turned off afterwards.

You may find a different way works for you, but these methods have kept my Macs since 1984 running without a problem and (with the exception of overheating Lacie/Maxtors!!!) I have had zero issues with hardware or data integrity.

Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

thanks guys. im just trying to sort out why some folk (like the three of us) have no fw issues outstide of the lacie and maxtor issues - but other folks like foley have had a buncha hell...?

maybe hes right. just luck possibly?

It is a faster shut down process to eject the drives first, then shut down. In my experience.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
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I'm with Shane...eject FW drives BEFORE powering down. No FW issues here.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

well, it would appear then there is no connection between fw issues and whether you unmount or post shutdown switch off FW drives - as i too am issue free.

i guess it is indeed simply a matter of luck/karma...

And just because I can I thought I'd throw it out there that we are wrapping up a series,
13 episode, 13 500 gig Lacie drives, mostly the big ones (2 drives in a box) but also 2 or 3 basic ones.
All FW800 connected, importing XDCAM HD, overnight recompressing to DV, 400-450gigs per episode. Playouts to DVCAM over FW. Dual G5s of various iterations. Moving episodes and drives from room to room, one episode cut out of house.
So far, no drive problems whatsoever. We've had problems yes indeedy but not with the drives.
I know I am tempting fate by posting this but I thought, what the heck, fate be damned.
I'll let you know when they fail though...

I did have a personal Lacie, 3 or 4 years old, go pphht recently. Nothing on it though so colour me one of the lucky ones.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

And here's a voodoo computer concept: 90 per cent of dead drives I've seen happen to people with no backups.

I think the Computer God must be Loki...he only kills drives that aren't prepared to die.


www.derekmok.com

I tend to eject all drives before shut down. Its just good housekeeping and i've yet to have a problem. The OS will automatically close all mounted drives, be it idisks or FW drives, i just prefer to do itmyself and like shane said it seems a bit faster if you go down the DIY route!!

Quote

I think the Computer God must be Loki...he only kills drives that aren't prepared to die.

In that case i would like to make it common knowledge that all my drives are, god willing, happy to die. They have all lead happy productive lives and should they snuff it tommorow morning each will float unto data heaven with a clear and happy heart. None of them have anything even remotly inportant or anythign that i would even bother to be upset about should they depart...

eheh.... did i cover myself?!

Quote

It is a faster shut down process to eject the drives first, then shut down. In my experience.

Time it including the time you take to eject the HDDs - I bet its longer and only the illusion of it being faster because you are doing something

Quote

did i cover myself?!

No Josh, in fact you've just waved the red flag to Murphy who is currently dealing with the Endemol Celebrity Big Brother Avid Unity drives...



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

***
Firewire Decks & Cameras need not be on or off when you connect them to your Mac.
***

Actually, we've fried two HDV decks and one Z1u due to people connecting them to the computer while the computer was powered up. The Sony rep told us that it was imperative that both the computer AND the device be powered down when connecting via firewire. FYI.

I concur about connecting when turned off.

As for shutdown, I agree that its faster to disconnect then shutdown, but I don't have a particular habit either way.

I quite often eject and connect drives without turning the machine off - I tend to only have a FW HD going when I'm using it. Again, I find the machine speedier with them not connected.

Having said that, isn't there also a theory that less on/off extends the life of most things? I know this certainly to be the theory with laptops, but then is that something to do with the battery?

And yes, definitely only cable connect FW devices of any kind when they are both powered off.

I have had a couple of drives die on me. I believe in the karma gods and backup.

My 2c. Interesting thread.

> The Sony rep told us that it was imperative that both the computer AND the device be
> powered down when connecting via firewire. FYI.

Yes, "hot mounting" (plugging in an external device while it's powered on) is not great for either drives or decks/cameras. I don't think the computer needs to be off, but FCP shouldn't be running and the deck/camera should be off when you first plug it. That goes for drives as well. Even though drives can hot-mount, it's not good for them. Strange things can happen at the flashpoint when a live FireWire is plugged into a live computer.


www.derekmok.com

wayne granzin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thanks guys. im just trying to sort out why some
> folk (like the three of us) have no fw issues
> outstide of the lacie and maxtor issues - but
> other folks like foley have had a buncha hell...?
>
> maybe hes right. just luck possibly?

Wayne,

It's not that I "personally, have had a bunchahell. rather me and several other people I deal with have had this problem type too. Over the years, especially during MacOS updates, sometime the drives just stop mounting. Even when you have to "disconnect Firewire devices" before updating MacOs-rather strange requirement I think-) but since I have and others have switched to SATA internals and external drives, NOT ONE Problem.

You must turn on SATA drives before booting the system and turn them off after the OS has released them. The odd thing about SATA is that when you turn on the power before booting, the drives don't start spinning until the system initializes them.

As far as Firewire, I have dealt with issue that I believe have more to do with people moving the drives back and forth between systems and in some cases have damaged them with a static discharge between computer cases. To many people believe that Firewire is "Hot Swap" and find out not in every environment.

We disagree on the Firewire use for "everything" and that is why there are Fords and Chevys and Toyotas. I believe in what I say from my experiences supporting other people with their computers and my own experiences editing.

My bottom line is that I believe that I have never seen documented Apple supporting Firewire for editing chores and having been a member of LAFCPUG for a couple of years, I have encountered this discussion a few times.

Your mileage may vary!

John

Just to add to the preffered shut down sequence debate, I always unmount drives before shutting down. I also eject cds and thumbdrives.

I always thought as a general rule USB was cool to pull whenever? Obviously not when files are in use etc. Now I'm writing it seems safer to eject everything!

And a tip from my last client - never travel a laptop with an optical disc (CD/DVD) in the drive - it can be heartache, and expensive. Just replaced a superdrive in a PB - $400. Ouch.