Shop talk??

Didn't we used to have a forum for general discussion, free for all topics?

I was looking for a forum to talk about market issues. Where would that be? An altogether different web site per chance?

For instance:
Are there some members out there who might be working at small independent tv broadcasting stations?
I would like to know what type of programming they are looking for.
Before I spend the time and money to produce some programs to offer them, I would like to know what I can expect it to sell for. And knowing all markets are different, I am looking for price "ranges" here. Minimum I could expect would be a start.
Are they looking for single episodes? ... would a block of episodes like a mini-series be more attractive?

Basically a little market research.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated folks.

Rick
Memphis

I have been to a couple of trade shows where content producers try and sell to distributors but I didn't get the impression that independent stations purchased directly from producers. Some paid producers to to produce programs that the station had developed but not for individual programs from independent producers.

I think this type of discussion is far more interesting than how to apply a video filter in FCP. I'd be interested to know where these types of discussions take place too.

Yes Michael, we need that.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

I'm really leery of adding just another "General discussion" forum to a internet with already a gazillion general discussion forums and blogs. For what purpose? If we limit it to market issues it would get about 3 posts a month and languish. Open it up to ANY topic and it may get a great deal of traffic, but before you know it someone will say something good or bad about Bush or Iraq or Global warming and then all hell breaks loose and it becomes just another general discussion forum among the already gazillion general discussion forums and blogs.

I'm willing to listen to you all and hear what you have to say on this, but give me a name of the forum and a one sentence description. What topics do we limit it too or is it a free for all? "General Discussion" doesn't work for me at all.

And yes, I agree that topics that discuss how to apply a filter in FCP are far less interesting then how to get distribution. But people dont usually come here to talk distribution.

Michael Horton
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even thought the description reads: "Your basic troubleshooting forum for all things FCP"
i would think the name of this forum "CafeLA" allows room for general discussion of this sort.

i don't think it's ever been discouraged, either.
personally i don't mind the filter & keyframe posts interspersed with questions about Post Houses, Rates, Actors & Distribution
and i fear that if they all went to an other forum, i;d never read them!

if there was to be a separate forum for them, how about "Shop Talk: discussion on how to get your film made, and how to get it seen"
ok.. i see now why i never had a career in copy-writing


nick

I agree with Mr. H... that's the first question I have heard regarding Distribution. There's no reason why a few straggling threads can't be started within the Cafe - just start them with an "OT:".

I used to Mod a "General Discussion" forum over at THAT OTHER famous NLE's website (which came about because of my persistence with Administration - thought it would be helpful & cathartic) and it turned into a bit of a 3 Ring Circus. Pretty soon there were posts from people bragging that they reached 2000 posts, etc. That kind of banter we do not need here - doesn't help ANYONE.

There's too much room for "Politics & Religion" in a General Discussion forum and it really takes a good site down a notch in respectability. We don't need it here.

My 2¢

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I agree with Joe and Mike. We already have people asking about setups, finances, distribution, festival strategy, actors, equipment, rental houses etc. And those questions tend to be addressed well by the whole community. There are so many other resources out there that I'd love to see this site stay focused on the editing side of things. Which is already a big, complicated field, especially with all the multi-tasking we have to do these days, doing the work that used to be six jobs!


www.derekmok.com

I'm not sure it required its own section either, but regarding your comment about how complicated and having to do six jobs, I'd argue that it has come to this because there has been way too much focus given to the technology [how to do something] rather than the business [why would you want to do something].

Because the barriers of price and complexity have fallen so much, far too many people think they can purchase a FCP system hang out a shingle and call themselves an editor, or a post facility. There is this large contingent of itinerant workers who compete for the same clients, pretty much the same way, with the same tools, the only differentiation between them is the price. A problem the manufacturers and studios are happy to exasperate.

I know that many will wander what the heck I'm talking about; "if I just know how to apply this filter or edit HD, I'll be rich!" Its always much easier/safer to discuss the 'how' to do something rather than the 'why.'

Personally I think there's a great deal of value to the members of this forum discussing why we do what we do in context of how we do it. I want to make money not impress my friends with the fact that I'm an editor.

Apparently an editor who can't spell or type...

Quote

Because the barriers of price and complexity have fallen so much, far too many people think they can purchase a FCP system hang out a shingle and call themselves an editor, or a post facility.

This has been my argument sonce Production Suite came out...but these poor newbies that think they now have a complete studio just because they own FCStudio are in for a shocker...and their work will reflect that. Any monkey can push a button. Timing / Composition / Design are things that come with EXPERIENCE. I for one would pay MORE for someone with EXPERIENCE than $12 an hour to a hungry newbie that will have to be hand-held through all processes. No thank you.

This forum has gone nowhere but UP in the time I have been here...as far as Professionalism and reputation. It is among the ELITE Final Cup Pro forums on the internet and I am proud to be a part of it. Let's keep the verbal clutter to a minimum

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Quote
the only differentiation between them is the price. A problem the manufacturers and studios are happy to exasperate.

i'm not sure about that.
i mean there's a limit to how low you can go without making it obvious you're inexperienced
studios aren't stupid, and they want quality and experience as much as anyone.
i also feel that if you charge a professional amount, the people that hire you will treat you as a pro.
in general i'm an optimist


nick

I certainly did not mean to open a can of worms here.
Apparently I was wrong about seeing a general discussion forum here on the LAFCPUG site. Yeah, I know this is a user group for FCP and it may very well be the best one out there. I have learned boatloads of information here.

There?s no doubt that some folks buy FCP, or any editing suite, and think they are now professional editors.
However, is the genius of being an editor knowing ?how? to cut and paste clips together, OR knowing WHAT to cut? Which clips support the story and which are extraneous. When you are handed 3 hours of footage and told to ?trim? it down to 120 minutes or 90, then the real work begins doesn?t it?

I understand the argument to keep the site solely FCP.
But what would be wrong with an additional forum to address more expanded topics of the production process and business?

This Apple Computer, this software, THIS user group has been extremely helpful to me, and an inspiration as well. I am now looking beyond just the editing process and I am assembling an entire production crew. I need a broader perspective now.

I expect there are many others among your members very similar to me. Have we outgrown LAFCPUG? Certainly not. I will always be checking in for tips and posting questions to obscure little problems.

Let me gently close the lid on this can of worms now.

So again, can anyone recommend any websites with forums that address more aspects of program and film production and distribution?

Thanks,
Rick
-who wished he lived closer to LA so he could come to the meetings in person

Feel free to bring up any topic in the Cafe Rick. Well, no politics and religion, but we talk about production here quite often so post away. Best to preface the subject with OT for Off Topic though when you feel its appropriate.

Michael Horton
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Quote

no politics and religion

By Zeus and Apollo! How will I advance my beliefs in the combined pantheon of Hellenic and Nordic deities, if not through a technical forum such as this. Loki himself is at work here I see.
Oh Loki, such a trickster are you!

Remember, at the next election, if they're not promising to bring Olympus and Valhalla to North America they don't deserve your vote.

Jet packs for all.
(smiling doodad goes here)

ak
only slightly insane

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By Zeus and Apollo! How will I advance my beliefs in the combined pantheon of Hellenic and Nordic deities, if not through a technical forum such as this.

Washington Post has a good forum for that topic.



Michael Horton
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