outputting DVCPRO HD to SD DVD

I tried posting this on the DVDSP forum last week and got no bites. Can anyone offer any advice?

Original post:
I'm trying to create a smooth-looking SD version of a piece I produced with the Sony HDV 24p (in Adanced mode). I used Cinema Tools to remove the pulldown before cutting in FCP, on Apple's Intermediate Codec. It looks fantastic in FCP.

I brought the Quicktime of the AIC timeline into DVDSP, trying to make an SD version of the piece and instead it looks really smeary, plus the lumenance looks like it bumped up a tad.

Any advices on how to bring this baby to sweetness would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Unamalatesta

I'm not quite sure I fully understand what format you are working with. Advanced pulldown is something used by Pansonic and in DV with Canon. When capturing HDV (let's say natively, no intermediate codec), you just choose the prest that matches- it comes in at 23.98 to begin with. No pulldown removal should be necessary. Now I don't know about the intermediate codec's issues except that it is definitely not very good quality.

So first off, I wouldn't trust how things look on your computer monitor- its wrong for a number of reasons. The output to DVD is a true measure of final output. As for the intermediate codec, this could be adding to your woes- beacuse of its quality level. As for doing a pulldown removal in Cinema Tools- its not meant for advanced pulldown removals, just 2:3 pulldown removal. As for the motion you are seeing in the computer, don't trust it. You'll only know if its done properly when the pulldown is added on output- to DVD, through a capture card with pulldown, or with a native format like DV that supports adding a pulldown on output.

Lastly, I want to address your subject line- which lists DVCPRO HD, not Sony HDV. If you really shot DVCPRO HD, most of what I said is not valid. Again, the advanced pulldown can be removed in FCP, during or after capture, but not in Cinema Tools. To output DVCPRO HD (24p) to DVD, then simply output a QukcTime and choose a 16x9 preset in Compressor and DVD Studio Pro. The 24p video will be properly converted back to 29.97 on output from the DVD Player. So make sure to test the DVD on an NTSC TV, not DVD Player inside your Mac.

Hope this helps,

Andrew Balis
Lead Final Cut Pro Instructor
www.moviola.com

Thanks, Andrew.

Well, I've actually got two pieces: one project/piece being the HDV 24p(A [there is an option for advanced on the Sony as well as, say, the Panasonic DVX 100]); the other proj/piece is DVCPRO HD, something shot on the Varicam at 23.98.

I captured the the Sony ftg as 1080i in FCP. I went into the capture scratch & opened each clip in CT, and performed the 2:3 removal, which produced a new .rev clip. I brought those into FCP on the AIC timeline and edited there.

1) HDV 24p Question: If I shouldn't use the AIC, then what codec should be used? I didn't see a 24p codec for HDV in the settings. Also, the Sony records 24p but in a 1080i signal, if I'm not mistaken, and because of that, don't I need to perform a pulldown to bring it to its true 24p state? What should the proper workflow be? (I was hard-pressed to find anything on this.)

2) DVCPRO HD Question: When I try to output my DVCPRO ftg, I have also experienced smeary looking video. Is your recommendation to keep it all 24p, output a 24p clip, then take that into Compressor and it will automatically add back the pulldown, making beautiful SD DVDs?

Sorry, one more question: How does one perform the pulldown w/n FCP?

Thank you for your replies, Andrew.

>
> Well, I've actually got two pieces: one
> project/piece being the HDV 24p(A ); the other
> proj/piece is DVCPRO HD, something shot on the
> Varicam at 23.98.
>
> I captured the the Sony ftg as 1080i in FCP. I
> went into the capture scratch & opened each clip
> in CT, and performed the 2:3 removal, which
> produced a new .rev clip. I brought those into
> FCP on the AIC timeline and edited there.
>
> 1) HDV 24p Question: If I shouldn't use the AIC,
> then what codec should be used? I didn't see a
> 24p codec for HDV in the settings. Also, the Sony
> records 24p but in a 1080i signal, if I'm not
> mistaken, and because of that, don't I need to
> perform a pulldown to bring it to its true 24p
> state? What should the proper workflow be? (I
> was hard-pressed to find anything on this.)

Great questions- and I don't have any solid answers. It depends on whether you shot with the Z1U or the V1U. If it is the V1U- then I would tend to agree- capture at 60i and do a pulldown removal. That format does appear to be a standard 2:3. On the other hand, the camera also boasts shooting in "24A"- which does not appear to be the same as Panasonic's advanced pulldown. The link I'm sending you suggests that this also is using a standard 2:3 pulldown. Its got me perplexed.

[bssc.sel.sony.com]

Also, the Sony Z1U does this completely different- using a mode called "Cineframe". Leave it to Sony to make more formats faster than we know what to do with.

BTW- in FCP there is now an HDV 24p preset for both 1080 and 720 in FCP 5.1.2 and above.


> 2) DVCPRO HD Question: When I try to output my
> DVCPRO ftg, I have also experienced smeary looking
> video. Is your recommendation to keep it all 24p,
> output a 24p clip, then take that into Compressor
> and it will automatically add back the pulldown,
> making beautiful SD DVDs?

Yes.


> Sorry, one more question: How does one perform the
> pulldown w/n FCP?

For an "advanced pulldown", in FCP you can highlight a clip in the Browser and go to the Tools menu > Advanced Pulldown Removal.

I know this doesn't answer all your questions- the Sony answer requires someone with more insight on this pulldown method being used. Sony's web page lists "Leading manufacturers are scheduled to release nonlinear editing software compatible with the "24A" mode. These nonlinear software can detect the 2-3 sequence and remove the 2-3 properly." What and when they are talking about I'm not sure.

Andrew

Maybe this will help you:

[www.kenstone.net]

The only Sony cams that do 24p Advanced are the F-900's I believe. So that V1u is still doing some form of regular 24p. I don't know why Sony does @#$%& like that. Why try to fool people into thinking they got something they don't got?

So you have "normal" pulldown which means no removal. You edit in 29.97 unless you want to use something like the Nattress standards converter so you can edit in 23.98fps. Then you can do a true 24p DVD. See the bottom of the link for that.

Even the experts get confused over how to work with this stuff:

[www.2-popforums.com]