Is there a way to LOGARITHMICALLY stretch 4x3 to 16x9 in FCP?

Hi everyone-

I have recently re-telecined a 16mm film so I could get it as an HD master. it was originally shot and composed in 4:3 years ago.

HD is 16:9. The 16mm film, as I said, is 4:3. I am trying to find a way of changing the aspect ratio. I know I can simply strectch the horizontal, but then all the people are short and fat. I could zoom so the sides hit the edge of frame, but then I loose a lot of head room.

When I have played the 4:3 DVD on my 16:9 Panasonic TV there's a mode called "just" (I have seem simillar modes on other brands called "mesh". It zooms in the image slightly and streches it logarithmically. The center of the image is virtually untouched. The sides are gradually further and further stretched as it moves further from the center.

Sure, some shots look odd (if a person walks from left to right of frame they will go from long and flat on one end to normal shaped as they go through the middle of the picture space to long and flat on the other end. But for 99% of the DVDs I have watched (and the over the air Standard def stuff) the method looks fantastic.

I think combining the three various methods on a shot by shot basis would be the best solution.

The problem is I haven't been able to find a way to do that "logarithmic stretching" on FCP. Has anyone here seen a way? Or is there a plug in that I can buy? Its seems like it should be a simple math based solution.

Thanks much,

David

I did play with writing such a filter a while back. I think I made it too complex, but email me and we'll see if it works for you.

Graeme

[www.nattress.com] - Plugins for FCP-X

Doesn't this type of pixel replacement require intelligent processing to fill the additional lines with pixels similar to the next real line vertically or adding pixels horizontally that mimick pixels on the horizontal scan line?

I remember a while back, there was a line doubling technology for SD to HD type conversions.

What does the Kona 3 or the Terranex do to uprez SD to HD?

Hi David

Oh yee with short-term memory loss! We had this discussion not too long ago!

[www.lafcpug.org]


Smart Anamorphic Plug-in in TMTS filters

It does all this in FCP just by dropping it on the clip

You can download Too Much Too Soon Filters free

Mattias Sandström's site is: [mattias.nu]


Regards

Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Ben!

Hi!

Yes, I do actually remember, but when I looked at the old stuff I was under the impression it was just for After Effects... I guess I was wrong... or drunk.... or both...

Thanks for showing me the errors of my ways

Dave

Thats ok Dave its my real life middle name!

Just ask anyone who has worked with me...


Ben Willshowyoutheerrorofyourwaysandmakeyourlifewonderful King



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

[I can simply strectch the horizontal, but then all the people are short and fat. I could zoom so the sides hit the edge of frame, but then I loose a lot of head room. ]

Please note that it doesn't seem to trouble about 100 million sports pub fans.

- Loren
Today's FCP 6 keytip:
Set Video Only In and Out with Control I or O !

The FCP KeyGuide?: your power placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Actually Loren,
I'm looking for exactly the filter that the 16x9 TVs use. Most of those TVs don't just stretch the image to fill out the sides, they do a logarithmic stretch so the ceneter of the action is not distorted but the sides are. Watch next time you see a soccer game. The ball will be perfectly round in the middle of the screen where its unstretched and it will get more and more oval towards the sides where the stretching is going on....

Hey Ben-

So I tried those filters. The smart strech does do what it says, the big issue with it, is it has a very noticable line where the streching occurs. It's not a gradual stretch. In other words if you have a close up of a person, the center part of the screen is great. Unstretched. However, there's a soft fuzzy line about 2/3 of the way into the screen where suddenly it is completely stretched from there to the edge of the picture. Obvioulsy when the person (or camera) moves you can quite clearly see where the line is.

In effect, it kind lof ooks like what would happen if I took a 4x3 image on V2, did a soft crop of a few inches off the sides. Then on V1, took the same image and stretched it to fill a 16x9 frame. Then, matched where the soft crop line was.

I looked to see if I could either make the line softer (and less noticable) or even change where the "line" was. Unfortunately, it was a no on both counts... In fact, there are no user customizable options at all with the filter

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Dave

Its odd because it doesnt do that on the s16mm footage I'm using.

However the stretch IS noticable in the grain where it shows most.

The trouble is no matter what filter or process you use to get this you will notice the details sretching if there are enough.

I did this on AE manually using a mesh and the same issue arises.

Maybe try applying an extra grain filter such as Cinemagic-X over the top to help hide these stretched artefacts.

Or a long shot - maybe a telecine through a lens designed to stretch the image this way?

Sorry I can't be much more help. My brain needs sleep!

Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Loren:
"it doesn't seem to trouble about 100 million sports pub fans. "

Dave:
"I'm looking for exactly the filter that the 16x9 TVs use. Most of those TVs don't just stretch the image to fill out the sides, they do a logarithmic stretch"

but i've NEVER see a pub TV set up correctly.
they've ALL been set to simple "stretch" mode

dave:
"it has a very noticable line where the streching occurs"

ok, so it's not just me.
i was getting that, too.
i think there is a market for one of these that works

i have to admit i'm impressed with the way TV's do it
all the ones i've seen also do a slight blow up as part of the package, BTW,
they blow up to 14/9 then edge stretch out to 16/9



on a side note i've been house-minding recently, so i've had one widescreen tv after another to play with.
i can tell you there is NO STANDARD for the terminology used for the various widescreen settings.
nevertheless finding the right one isn't that hard,
(not as hard as programming a VCR!)
so i cant figure what's wrong with the pub people.


nick

Nick,

I think the pubs use the the inverse-previsualization-law-of-thermodynamics. Basically the more alcohol you injest the more the bad streched TV people resemble the real world.

In fact when you reach the alcohol saturation point, short fat girls, like Roseanne begin to resemble tall lanky swimsuit models.... which explains alot!

So, its all just science...

Quote
In fact when you reach the alcohol saturation point, short fat girls, like Roseanne begin to resemble tall lanky swimsuit models.... which explains alot!

I didn't know that. That does explain a lot. Never been in an Aussie pub but the stories I hear......

Michael Horton
-------------------

Quote
Mike
but the stories I hear......

are all true!

i've updated the plugin and it now works much better. it's still not "logarithmical" but as graeme says that's probably too complex for no reason anyway. i just divide it into more regions now and it works quite well. email me if you want a beta version.

/matt

Mattias Sandström
www.mattias.nu
IMDb

Was busy this weekend but had time to play today. I've just put a new plugin called Andy's Fake Anamorphic Fixer up on my plugins page. You're very welcome to try it.

It assumes you have already added the anamorphic flag to a non-anamorphic clip. You can then add this fixer filter to that clip to try to compensate in the manner you describe. There is a control for the amount (the strength of the effect) and for the center.

Its far from perfect but, used judiciously, it may work for you. That said, Mattias and Graeme both know a boatload more than I do about all this, so you'll likely be better off with their plugins for this

[homepage.mac.com]

Cheers
Andy

Cheers guys I was just about to point David in your direction re: update but I see you got here first!

Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Thanks you guys! So far this has been a great help!

Mattias' TMTS Smart Anamorphic do a great job of doing gradual stretches and I like his multiple zones approach. Unfortunately all the zones boarders are "fixed" which means when the camera or the subjects move over the "lines" where the zones are, it becomes obvious as to where the strech line is...

Andy's Fake Anamorphic allows the user to change the size of the stretch area. The problem is it is locked in the middle of the screen, and obvioulsy only one stretch area. While the variable stretch feature is great, by being locked to the center, you either have to have very distorted center imags to get a nicer side strech, or a great center but horrific sides....

The middle 33% of the frame is where most of the TV Safe oction occurs. There should be almost no stretching there. Because there is nearly no crucial action occuring at the edges of the frame, extreme streching can go on there and be less noticable...

Is there a way to combine the two and have multiple zones each with variable streching?

As always, thanks for all this valuable help guy!

David