Varicam VS HVX200

Guys

I am looking into a camera for a shoot next week.
Can anyone explain the difference between the Varicam (AJ-HDX900) and the HVX200?
(Same format different chip?)
And would I be better off perhaps with the Sony FW900?

Shooting 60fps green screen shoot.
Would like to go higher in frame rate but I cant afford to use film on this : -(

Thanks

Johan Polhem
Motion Graphics
www.johanpolhem.com

Just from what I know talking with my director:

Varicam can do "real slow-mo", variable frame rates in camera. I don't think the HVX can.

The Varicam is a much, much bulkier camera, old-school "broadcast camera"-sized.

The HVX shoots on P2 media, tapeless. The Varicam uses DVCPro HD tapes.

My director swears the Varicam's image is much better. Since he didn't use both cameras on his shoot, there was no way for me to tell how much better.

Biggest difference: About $40,000!


www.derekmok.com

HVX-200 - 1/3" CCDs
Varicam - 2/3" CCDs (twice as large, so far better resolution, less video noise and superior performance in low light)

HVX-200 - FIXED LENS
Varicam - you can add a good lens. And good glass (lens) makes ALL the difference

HVX-200 - Shoots DV, DVCPRO 50, DVPRO HD (1080, 720 in ALL frame rates)...81 different formats in all.
Varicam - Shoots 720p only...but 60, 30 and 24.

BOTH shoot 720p60 for good slow motion.

The broadcast networks consider the Varicam an "A" camera...can be used as a main camera. They consider the HVX-200 a "B" camera only. And really, you can see the difference between the footage. The sharpness of the image you get with the varicam because of the lens you use is a HUGE plus.

It all comes down to budget.


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The other major differences are the HVX200 uses 540x960 1/3" CCD's which pixel-shift in both directions while the Varicam has 720x1280 2/3" CCDs and the lenses available for the Varicam are infinitely better and limited only by your budget.

If you rent a Varicam and a set of Zeiss Digiprimes, you're up there in the 35mm film (production) budget range. But you can rent a very nice zoom for the price of one Digiprime.

As for the F900, I would guess the rental on that camera is close to the Varicam but they don't do the same things:

F900 vs. Varicam

be sure to check out DVXUser.com They talk about the HVX 200 obviously, but they do rate other cameras as well.

Hi Johan:

Not to be a stickler, but the AJ-HDX900 is not the Varicam (AJ-HDC27F). The true Varicam only shoots in 720P, the HDX900 can shoot 720P or 1080i(p). The Varicam is also discontinued, replaced by three cameras, the HPX-2000, 3000 and to an extent on the low end, the HPX-500. Panasonic will not be making tape cameras very much longer, the HDX is fairly new, yet it too will probably not be on the market for too much longer.

I own an HVX-200 and I did a shoot for a broadcast special with four of the HDX-900s a few weeks ago so I feel a little bit qualified to give my impressions of both.

HVX-200 - Inexpensive, great picture and features, P2 media is the best to work with, shoots variable frame rates and native frame rates. Tape sucks too for a shooter once you are used to the instantaneous start and stop recording of P2 media. 1/3" chips mean higher noise levels in low light, less sensitivity and over abundant depth of field. Fixed 13x lens means not very much flexibility in focal length, although it is a nice lens for what it is.

HDX-900 - Expensive, better picture. Tape means maximum load is 33 minutes now in HD format although you can shoot 33 minutes of 1080 footage. Even with the 16GB P2 cards, you only would get 32 minutes of 1080 footage with two of them in the HVX. Main difference will be better lens, more detail, less noise than HVX and shallower depth of field. If I had my choice, I would always shoot with the HDX-900 over the HVX-200, unless I was trying to be discrete with guerilla style shooting. The camera has a better picture and is pretty nice but it should be for about 5-6 times the price.

BTW, Derek, the HVX-200 does do variable frame rates. What it does not do that the Varicam can do is in camera speed ramps up and down in frame rate, a neat trick. Wish it did. But HVX-200 60fps footage is a thing to behold, it's beautiful. To me, I like it's look even better than S16 film for a lot of looks. I also use 32-26 fps a lot for smooting out handheld and Doggiecam shots, it works great.

The CineAlta? Also a great camera but much bigger, heavier and generally significantly more expensive to rent or buy than the Varicam. I did a shoot for the Warner Bros Film Noir 4 DVD box set with two of them, they are sweet and I love the look. Different look and feel than the Varicam. To me, the 900 is more a replacement for a film camera and the Varicam and the HDX-900 are both more like video cameras that can shoot filmic looking images at 24P. Different look and feel than the Sony but both are great.

Bottom line...if you can afford it, I would go for the Varicam and or HDX-900 package. If you have even more money, the Sony (but I don't believe the Sony does variable frame rates, you know that, right?) If money is tight, I shoot a lot of good looking stuff with my HVX, it's an amazing camera for a low cost. With green screen, depth of field becomes irrelevant but the cleaner signal of the HDX or Varicam would be slightly better. I have shot a TON of green screen with the HVX though and it does just fine. Same codec and similar quality and colorimetry to the Varicam and HDX, that's why the HVX is a great "B" camera to the HDX/Varicam, Panasonic designed them that way.

All the best,

Dan

Johan,
Don't forget, you'll soon have the option of renting the Red One (clouds part, angels sing) as there are hundreds (thousands?) on order:

Red (et al) rental

Considering the camera costs 1/4 what an F900 costs, the rental prices SHOULD be reasonable. There should be TONS of info out there shortly after the release as this is the most anticipated product launch I can ever remember.

May also knock the price of Varicam rental down.

No one has mentioned the Sony EX1 XDCAM EX - Cine Alta. It'll be available in Nov.

It's hand held size but has 3 1/2" chips (CMOS) at full 1920x1080 size (even the more expensive XDCAM HD cameras don't have that). At 720p it's also variable frame rate from 1 to 60p. It's also 1080i and 1080p (30p). It can also shoot 24p. Like Panasonic it shoots to "cards" (other XDCAM series shoot to disc). The cards hold more than Pansonic cameras and it uses Express cards with the connector common to recent Mac and Sony laptops. The cards hold more because it's 35mbps VBR MPEG2 Long GOP whereas Pansonic is I frame DVCProHD. For the EX a 16GB card holds 50 minutes at highest quality so its 2 card slots means you've got 100 minutes record time. Camera weighs about 5lbs. It's the only camera of its size using 1/2" chip sensors ( and are 1920x1080 along with variable frame rate). In addition it has HD-SDI out which is HD "uncompressed" 4:2:2). It records 4:2:0 to the cards. Cost is "under" $8000 but of course you'll probably want to buy a couple of cards and an XDCAM burner to archive.


Dan Brockett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Johan:
> . . .
> The CineAlta? Also a great camera but much bigger,
> heavier and generally significantly more expensive
> to rent or buy than the Varicam. . . .>
> All the best,
>
> Dan

Thanks guys!

Thats why I love this site; the best people give the best advice.
After reading these posts Im going with the varicam. We can afford any camera/lenses to shoot on its just the film development, telecine etc we cant afford on this budget.
As Dan pointed out above the lenses are way better which is important.
Its a green screen shoot so well have the best lighting conditions so we may as well get the best picture possible.
Having shot on the HVX camera I have had problems slowing down due to motion blur on some fast moving footage. (Half that problem will be gone considering we are adding the background in post so we dont have to worry about masking the moving objects)
Anyone know any good tecnhiques to reduce blur on the shoot?

And Tim, yeah cant wait to try the RED.
Considering buying, but I will have to rent it first and see if its all that its cranked up to be.

Johan Polhem
Motion Graphics
www.johanpolhem.com

Hi Johan:

Wise decision, the Varicam is a great camera. You can reduce blur by increasing shutter speed. With the HVX-200, I often end up having to shoot interiors at 1/24th of second shutter, which definitely gives a blur to the movement, although I only use this shutter speed when I need to and only on sit down interviews where the subject is stationary. If you don't have enough lights with the HVX, it becomes a choice of slower shutter speed versus increasing gain. Since the HVX already has a fairly noisy picture, I try to avoid gain whenever possible. The default shutter speed when shooting 24P is 1/48th or 180.0 degree shutter. You can decrease blur from here by increasing shutter speed to perhaps 1/60th, although you will obviously then need more light.

If you are matching backgrounds that are to be shot on video (versus CGI BGs), it would be wise to try to match shutter speed with what the green screen BG shots were shot at. Imagine daylight moving exteriors shot with a 1/250th of second shutter composited with green screen footage shot at 1/48th. The exteriors would have the extremely crisp, sharp "Gladiator fight scene" look, while the greenscreen material would look totally normal. Wouldn't match very well.

The Varicam with prime cine lenses can look incredible, I would advise renting cine primes, maybe a set of Zeiss, if you have the budget. You probably won't need a zoom when shooting greenscreen and can usually afford to move the talent/camera to where you need them to get the frame size you need. The quality of the glass is very important, use the best you can afford.

Good luck,

Dan

Dan

Thanks, very useful information.
The background is CG so not to concerned about matching shutter speeds
but that is good advice for future shoots.

Ill try and get a Zeiss.

Johan Polhem
Motion Graphics
www.johanpolhem.com