Film School at NYFA or LAFS

I do know this thread has nothing to do with FCP users but if it wouldnt be to much to ask if you could give me some advice about this film schools as most of you here are from LA.

Im from Malaysia and have already studied Multimedia majoring in Video(DIPLOMA) been working for a year now in Post Prod. and Production.

Planning to study film at NYFA @ Universal Studios or LA Film School. What would you guys who have any feed back on this schools say to this options?

Or if there are any other schools i could go to?

Email me at rajivrai@gmail.com or simply reply this thread if that isnt going to upset anyone(namingly the moderators of this forum)

Your help will really help me with my decision

Thank you

Hi Rajiv i have done kind of alot of research into both of these schools because i am young and would like to study film they are both really good schools they both have one year programs but NYFA has the ability to be "invited" back for two maby a third year i'm not sure about three years but definately two years while LA Film School is limited to one year.

prominate people have come from both schools so you know they are both excellent i am more attracted to NYFA though its just my personal taste

if any of my info is wrong someone please correct me



Good Luck


Sean

> Planning to study film at NYFA @ Universal Studios or LA Film School. What
> would you guys who have any feed back on this schools say to this options?

I have certain biases for and against the L.A. branch of the NYFA, but I can tell you this: The thesis students I taught got about two weeks to finish editing their films, which I consider to be a joke. Thesis films from graduate film schools take anywhere from three months to two years to edit. Not to mention the near-impossibility of reshoots. And some of the students didn't even show up for scheduled editing consultations. Fifty per cent of the students I looked at had films that showed a great deal of promise, but completely fell apart in Act 3, which also makes me suspect their writing process.

Aren't these schools sort of crash courses on filmmaking? I think working on a production is a better way to learn filmmaking, especially if someone already has film training or education. I'm contacted by students who have taken courses from these schools; my feelings are that it's always good to take some kind of courses on filmmaking before getting into production. But if you're already working in the field and need some sort of certification, that's another thing. Probably attending USC -- if you're in Southern California -- is a better way. Good luck.

I can't speak for other people so please disregard my comments if you found your education was something you couldn't have learned elsewhere.

Basically with many Media Courses you go to school/college/university and they give you a reading list and a some things to self-learn, set you a task, then comment and grade you on your progress.

Unless you are lucky enough to have Derek Mok coming in to teach and consult on your project you are better off learning as much 'on the job' as possible - get work experience - do free work - go to shows - watch film/TV - atend seminars - ask questions of LAFCPUG! and generally do it yourself without the cost of college.

There is very little you cannot learn from talking to old pros and reading books and articles online or just trying it yourself.

The only bonus that University gave me was cheap or free use of materials and equipment. If you need feedback and suggestions on your work - ask friends, professionals or post it online and just ask for it. I think you'll find a lot of very opinionated people with a desire to comment good, bad, helpful, etc.

Unfortunately I think uni is a waste of time for a lot of vocational courses especially media. All the best and most capable people in the industry I know just went out and did it themselves and often say the same thing.

If you're an 'I can do it' sort of person then do it.

If you're an 'I would like to do it' sort of person, then get your wallet out and pay for someone to tell you what to do until you develop into the former.

You can always go back a do accreditation for your skills later.


Ben





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I did a degree in film at a very elite school in London and all it taught me was that I love editing and to beware the nightmare of a production and raising money. I strongly feel that the real learning starts after film school as an assistant editor or whatever. In London (post production) you start as a runner in soho then VT operator to assistant editor then up....this has nothing to do with the LA way but there is some relation. Phil

OK i understand all those inputs well and agree with it. I Guess sitting here in Asia makes me wonder what the industry is like out there.

The 1st 3 months i spent in post prod. thought me more then the 3years i spent doing my Dip.

I know if i stay i would probably learn more about the industry and get more recognised here. But what i really am looking for is some exposer.

Learning how to use a 16mm or and editing tool isnt what im looking for. Im looking for a place i could learn film language and develop my own style. knowing how to edit is a craft but knowing when to cut is art.(Needless to say you sometimes cant say where to cut, sometimes the cut just happens) I really just want to broaden my understanding on feel and emotion of cutting and film.

I was also keen on finding myself a place in the film industry in the States.

I wouldnt mind doing a short course 6mths to a 1yr would be just nice.

Also which lecturer would you recommend for a person like me? Im sure there are the favs out there.

If you want to test the waters in LA, try out a couple of home courses first. For less than $400 each you get a pretty good idea of the process of directing and producing from these two "2 day schools". As for the craft of editing, work as an assistant with a really good editor.

[www.actioncut.com]
[www.webfilmschool.com]

OK so its pretty clear that most of u would suggest i stay and continue to work. Ok then my question would be, considerting that i would stay and continue working would it be possible for me to do a Degree course later on instead of doing another diploma?

I also got a Certificate in TV Production before film school. It gave me a leg up on everyone in my class. I did go to film school and I am not knocking it at all. It did teach me a ton about Post Production Technology, Networking, Compositing, 3D & took me to SIGGRAPH '98 (which totally blew my mind apart), but for the most part it got me a buttload of student loans to repay (which I paid off last month).

I learned everything I know (still learning after 16 years) in The School of Hard Knocks (which is Life experience). There is no school that teaches it and you can't pay for it with $$$. You pay for it with your love, time & enthusiasm for the work. You want to learn film? Freelance as a P.A. for a couple of years...you will learn every aspect of the business and make fabulous contacts (there's that NETWORKING word again). I sometimes did Pro Bono work and offered to help in the Edit Suites, Camera, Grip & Lighting & Art Departments. Amazing experience - my film school experience didn't come near that.

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I agree with Joe, but I'd also like to add some alternate viewpoints:

1. If you're not already a good storyteller, film school is definitely a good place to get screenwriting instruction. However, some film schools are better than others at that -- my alma mater Columbia University has a stellar reputation for screenwriting, but crap equipment and technical training. Whereas at least 50 per cent of NYU graduate students I've met can't put together a decent Act 3, and when they try to tell their story in two minutes, they talk about camera moves, shots and cuts while the listener falls asleep.

2. Possibly the most important aspect of film school is the networking. Working in the "real world" will also get you loads of contacts, but film school is the place where you can meet other aspiring directors and writers, above-the-line creative personnel. And there's a creative tension there which fosters good work. And since the clock isn't ticking while a client waits, you can experiment much more.

3. Having prior experience before film school can be both a blessing and a curse. You might have more technical knowledge, but by the same token, I've seen film students who already considered themselves pros and didn't learn a thing because they were so rigid...and sometimes too arrogant. Those people really *would* have been better off saving all that tuition and living money on making a low-budget feature. By contrast, I didn't even know how to focus a video camera when I got into film school, but I quickly became the most specialized editor. Advantages of being an absolute amateur and knowing it -- you absorb things faster, and often benefit from having a fresh perspective.

4. Film school can't substitute for real experience, but there's also nothing that says you can't get both at the same time. My colleagues and I in our film school days were constantly striving to do things outside of class, and having 60 students per year who were shooting and directing gave me a huge pool to draw from in terms of editing jobs. So I had a pretty interesting and productive journey in the "work for free" part of my editing training.

5. Film school can produce fruitful mentoring relationships. It's nice to be able to show my script to my screenwriting instructor. And he sends jobs my way sometimes, as well.

In the UK if you have a proven track record of work you can often get onto a Masters course or do the first year of a degree then go onto to do a Masters.

After working for a year or so, I doubt you would gain much out of a degree level course, but a Masters will give you the opportunities that Derek has highlighted.

As I always say - get the perferred reading lists from the Universities you want to attend and buy the books and read them in your own time whilst working whether you go to Uni or not.

Also if you don't do a 3 to 4 year degree course, you won't end up with a massive educational debt. Which in some cases is almost impossible to pay off (unless you/your parents have lots of money). Many of my younger friends in the UK who studied film/media are faced with anything from a £16,000 to £40,000 debt from living costs and course fees. Not something you want when starting out on a career.





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Well I am a current student at the Los Angeles Film School, I am currently in my 11th month (Production 2, also known as midterms month) I'm in the extended 18 month program, which I would recommend EVERYONE to do instead of the 12 month program, because with the 12 month you are doubled up with class time and you don't get to concentrate on everything you want to do, and it's very rushed.

To tell you the honest truth I love LAFS. I've learned so much in the time that I have been here that I am now confident in not only what I want to focus on, but every aspect of filmmaking. What I love about this school is that every department is unique and you have amazing support to reach out too. The cinematography teachers are wonderful and will definitely teach you anything you need to know about digital/film cameras and lighting, I know for a fact we have an AMAZING production design and art direction department. I believe it to be one of the best in the country. The screenwriting teacher is fantastic and really knows her craft, and will help you churn out a great thesis script. Jim Pasternak, which is the directing teacher, always blows me away with how well he has developed his craft. The professional talent in this school goes on and on.

What's also great about the program is YOUR CLASSMATES. These people really do end up being people you will work with for the rest of your life, and when you leave school you will have networked your way through school, I don't see how it's not possible not to find work. You learn how important collaboration is in this industry, and you will go far with that.

The best is having access to the equipment room, where you can rent out lights, c-stands, flags, cameras etc. etc. You can pretty much create anything you want in your free time and not have to worry about paying serious bucks to use equipment!

I know this isn't important, but you also get invited to awesome screenings for new movies with Q&A's with the directors, screenwriters, etc.

& when I mean you learn and do everything...YOU REALLY DO. This is a very hands on program, and every month is very specific to a certain area of the industry, where you will learn how to do things properly and develop your craft for whatever it is you want to do.

The LA film school still has some negatives though, such as the online classes, which are really a hassle, I would suggest transferring GE credits instead of taking them there. The beginning of the program was kind of shaky when I started since they were making new adjustments to the program. Yet what i'm here now that is fixed and the students really enjoy it. Wish that was the case back then!

I do not know much about NYFA, the only bad thing I know is that they aren't allowed to rent props from the Universal Studios prop house since they ruined their reputation with them awhile back, and we are known as one of Universal's appreciated schools.

Overall you will learn that this school basically gives you access to get in touch with the film world/industry and you get to learn and do things in this school you never thought possible. At least that's the case with me.

I hope this helps!

Hey Rajiv

If you have the chops then give the Film program at the Tisch campus in Singapore a thought.

[www.tischasia.nyu.edu.sg]

Cheers
Andy

Hi there Rajiv,

I didn't go to film school and I believe that this made it harder for me to get a start in the business. I completely agree with Derek's point #2 "Possibly the most important aspect of film school is the networking."

Had I been to a film school I would have had a ready made network of companions with whom to learn about that little matter of getting a damn job.

On the other hand, I doubt if there is anything of vital importance to be learned in film school which can't be learned better by practical experience. And it's very expensive, as I understand.

Rajiv, you did well to ask for advice from the members of this forum since this place is populated by unusually experienced and intelligent film makers.

Harry.

Emerson College. Its graduates run roughly 20% of Hollywood. They've just opened an LA campus.

But if you get attached to a real film production in your craft interest, take that too.

- Loren

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Why come to LA when you got a great school right there in Singapore. Like Andy said, check out the Tisch School. Heard nothing but great things about it.

Michael Horton
-------------------

With the US economy the way it is, the US is a nice option, both as a life experience, and for the fact that there is absolutely nothing to shoot in Singapore that hasn't been shot that doesn't look like a bunch of mass housing development projects with drab color schemes.

>Unfortunately I think uni is a waste of time for a lot of vocational courses especially media

One thing you need to watch out for is you need to choose your uni/course of study carefully. If you take a media course at an academic university (and I've friends who have gone through predominantly paper based uni courses, and they hate it), you'll be flipping through books hoping you get that TV job when you get out of school. Not that it's a total waste of time, but if you are planning to work in the film industry, I'm not too sure about the importance of writing a 15000 word research paper on "what does nationalism mean to you". Frankly, I'd rather do a 5 min short film on existentialism. Of course, there are film schools, which offer a different curriculum.


>Im looking for a place i could learn film language and develop my own style. knowing how
>to edit is a craft but knowing when to cut is art

If you ask me, it is done in part in school as well as when you are actively practicing editing. In fact, more when you are out of school. I learnt quite a lot on low end jobs, where you scratch your head and your tuchus trying to figure out how to make chicken salad out of chicken sh**. You try to incorporate the client's vision and requirements into the project (they are ultimately paying for the project), and that is in itself a learning process, and after a few years, you develop your own language as well as style, based on what you do and see, in both films and in the world around you.

I'm not sure what your course was like. I went through a diploma course, which was basically a film curriculum, and I definitely prefer it over a multimedia course with emphasis on software. A large part of what learnt was about story, content, paying careful attention to different elements in a piece of music or soundscape, and I can't tell you how much I learnt about frame composition in video and film by shooting black and white still photography. I learnt about the technical aspects of video, much of which was quickly forgotten, but they came back like the flashback scene in Apocalypse Now, when I eventually started working and actually had to deal with it (eg. figuring out which was the composite cables and which was the component signal).

So both work experience and a good education are important, and when you do graduate, keep your ego in check, because you always hear stories of film graduates who think they know more about filmmaking than Francis Ford Coppola.



www.strypesinpost.com

Francis Coppola was a film student himself once, remember that! ;-) His thesis was THX1138.

- Loren

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Loren Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Francis Coppola was a film student himself once,
> remember that! ;-) His thesis was THX1138.

I'm sure you meant to say George Lucas...


"THX 1138" was based on Lucas's student film "Electronic Labyrinth: THX 1138 4EB".


-Dave

Lucas directed. Coppola was the executive producer.

All the best,

Tom