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OT: Oblique Strategies
Posted by strypes
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OT: Oblique Strategies May 11, 2008 01:35AM |
[www.apple.com]
Created by Brian Eno, though it's more specific to music, but I always have this on every editing workstation I'm on. Anyone else uses it?
www.strypesinpost.com
Created by Brian Eno, though it's more specific to music, but I always have this on every editing workstation I'm on. Anyone else uses it?
www.strypesinpost.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 11, 2008 01:48AM |
Just tried it. Definitely not my thing. Too general. To be honest, the usefulness of many of those maxims can be boiled down to:
Move in the opposite direction from what seems to be the obvious solution.
Valid strategy at times, but not that specific. And only experience can really generate that mindset. And then there are times when Brian Eno wanted to erase "Where the Streets Have No Name" -- one of the greatest rock recordings of all time.
Some similar strategies I've used:
- Instead of shortening a scene, lengthen it. A tight 30-minute film is better than a not-tight 20-minute film. Scenes that don't work aren't always begging to be cut; they're begging for breathing space so they can actually do their job.
- Instead of smoothing out a cut that doesn't work, make it jagged and bold -- so that the audience has to accept the choice or else.
- Instead of mixing the music louder, kill it altogether.
- Instead of explaining something in the story, try not even attempting to explain at all.
- Instead of trying to marry two shots, kill one of them.
- Instead of trying to improve a bad performance, make it irrelevant by marginalizing the shots on that actor.
- Instead of opening with the first scene, open with the middle or the last one.
- Instead of keeping only the best scenes, cut them out and then watch the whole thing again -- what you miss can tell you things.
- Instead of plugging away for another 16 hours straight, go home and relax, come back to it in two days.
- Instead of adding more elements, take away some and make things purer and simpler.
www.derekmok.com
Move in the opposite direction from what seems to be the obvious solution.
Valid strategy at times, but not that specific. And only experience can really generate that mindset. And then there are times when Brian Eno wanted to erase "Where the Streets Have No Name" -- one of the greatest rock recordings of all time.
Some similar strategies I've used:
- Instead of shortening a scene, lengthen it. A tight 30-minute film is better than a not-tight 20-minute film. Scenes that don't work aren't always begging to be cut; they're begging for breathing space so they can actually do their job.
- Instead of smoothing out a cut that doesn't work, make it jagged and bold -- so that the audience has to accept the choice or else.
- Instead of mixing the music louder, kill it altogether.
- Instead of explaining something in the story, try not even attempting to explain at all.
- Instead of trying to marry two shots, kill one of them.
- Instead of trying to improve a bad performance, make it irrelevant by marginalizing the shots on that actor.
- Instead of opening with the first scene, open with the middle or the last one.
- Instead of keeping only the best scenes, cut them out and then watch the whole thing again -- what you miss can tell you things.
- Instead of plugging away for another 16 hours straight, go home and relax, come back to it in two days.
- Instead of adding more elements, take away some and make things purer and simpler.
www.derekmok.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 11, 2008 02:40AM |
I like it for its randomness. Really hits me on those 2 am nights. "how would you have done it" "not building a wall but making a brick". I usually draw a card, and it's either i continue to work or take a smoke and think about it. Adds a new perspective, though sometimes it seems more related to music.
www.strypesinpost.com
www.strypesinpost.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 11, 2008 12:50PM |
Nope. That's Beijing, the historic Tiananmen Square. The Macdonalds sign is right at the end. Can't really get it from this distance on a wide.
www.strypesinpost.com
www.strypesinpost.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 12, 2008 05:45PM |
>And then there are times when Brian Eno wanted to erase "Where the Streets Have No Name" --
>one of the greatest rock recordings of all time.
The greatest minds get it wrong sometimes... I never got the part of who is bigger- U2 or Brian Eno. The layered guitar lines behind U2's greatest hits are unmistakably an Eno idea, also the vocal sound of Bono on Shure's SM57, as well as the electronic texture behind a key era of U2's releases. The political messages are unmistakably U2. Brian himself was a fairly accomplished electronic/avant garde musician with key albums such as Another Green World, his early work with Roxy Music... Was he involved with Genesis?
www.strypesinpost.com
>one of the greatest rock recordings of all time.
The greatest minds get it wrong sometimes... I never got the part of who is bigger- U2 or Brian Eno. The layered guitar lines behind U2's greatest hits are unmistakably an Eno idea, also the vocal sound of Bono on Shure's SM57, as well as the electronic texture behind a key era of U2's releases. The political messages are unmistakably U2. Brian himself was a fairly accomplished electronic/avant garde musician with key albums such as Another Green World, his early work with Roxy Music... Was he involved with Genesis?
www.strypesinpost.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 12, 2008 06:20PM |
> The layered guitar lines behind U2's greatest hits are unmistakably an Eno idea
I doubt that...The Edge has been doing layered guitars with multiple delay effects since "I Will Follow", and "Sunday Bloody Sunday" as well. But the keyboards on "With or without You" and "Where the Streets Have No Name" are very Eno. Zooropa is the most Eno-esque of U2 records.
> Brian himself was a fairly accomplished electronic/avant garde musician with key albums such as
> Another Green World, his early work with Roxy Music... Was he involved with Genesis?
Don't think so. Same approach, though -- Tony Banks from Genesis, Jon Lord from Deep Purple, Keith Emerson from ELP -- all of them were great players, but used way too many keyboards and drowned out the mix. Deep Purple sounds dated production-wise, but Led Zeppelin doesn't.
www.derekmok.com
I doubt that...The Edge has been doing layered guitars with multiple delay effects since "I Will Follow", and "Sunday Bloody Sunday" as well. But the keyboards on "With or without You" and "Where the Streets Have No Name" are very Eno. Zooropa is the most Eno-esque of U2 records.
> Brian himself was a fairly accomplished electronic/avant garde musician with key albums such as
> Another Green World, his early work with Roxy Music... Was he involved with Genesis?
Don't think so. Same approach, though -- Tony Banks from Genesis, Jon Lord from Deep Purple, Keith Emerson from ELP -- all of them were great players, but used way too many keyboards and drowned out the mix. Deep Purple sounds dated production-wise, but Led Zeppelin doesn't.
www.derekmok.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 12, 2008 07:09PM |
I think we're getting deep into music nerd territory here but what the hell...
I've always thought that the 70's analog synths recorded with analog tapes were always an uneven match and I think that's what you're getting at Derek. Those bands you mention date very easily and the mix seems more about spotlighting the playing techniques rather than the songs.
The new digital synths of the 80s and the nascent digital recording technologies were a bad mix as the thinness of the sounds and the unfamiliarity of the industry with the strengths and weaknesses of digital recording led to some horrendous mixes. Strong songs can overcome any of this but there's a lot of so-so songs drowning in over-processed digital tracks. I think what we're getting to now is a new appreciation of analog synth sounds and their "fatness" and the maturation of digital recording technology and the ability of anyone to get ahold of an old Korg MS20 and fit it in with a otherwise conventional rock band and not need to have one person be the Eno-like egghead who understands Fourier transforms and the logic of a DX7.
That said I am a huge Roxy fan (Eno era and the few albums after) and I love his early less ambient solo stuff (Warm Jets). I like the way he thinks and he can make U2 sound almost appealing to me, which in generally isn't.
Oblique strategies is a constant refference for me as a way to attack problem solving in new ways without needing a self-help book styled "3 steps to perfect problem Solving".
Does anyone remember those albums in the 80's that had a little symbol on the jacket that said "No synthesizers used in the making of this album". Try explaining that to a 20 year old. Makes the big issues of music in the 80's seem somewhat parochial.
ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!
I've always thought that the 70's analog synths recorded with analog tapes were always an uneven match and I think that's what you're getting at Derek. Those bands you mention date very easily and the mix seems more about spotlighting the playing techniques rather than the songs.
The new digital synths of the 80s and the nascent digital recording technologies were a bad mix as the thinness of the sounds and the unfamiliarity of the industry with the strengths and weaknesses of digital recording led to some horrendous mixes. Strong songs can overcome any of this but there's a lot of so-so songs drowning in over-processed digital tracks. I think what we're getting to now is a new appreciation of analog synth sounds and their "fatness" and the maturation of digital recording technology and the ability of anyone to get ahold of an old Korg MS20 and fit it in with a otherwise conventional rock band and not need to have one person be the Eno-like egghead who understands Fourier transforms and the logic of a DX7.
That said I am a huge Roxy fan (Eno era and the few albums after) and I love his early less ambient solo stuff (Warm Jets). I like the way he thinks and he can make U2 sound almost appealing to me, which in generally isn't.
Oblique strategies is a constant refference for me as a way to attack problem solving in new ways without needing a self-help book styled "3 steps to perfect problem Solving".
Does anyone remember those albums in the 80's that had a little symbol on the jacket that said "No synthesizers used in the making of this album". Try explaining that to a 20 year old. Makes the big issues of music in the 80's seem somewhat parochial.
ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 12, 2008 07:42PM |
> I've always thought that the 70's analog synths recorded with analog tapes were always an
> uneven match and I think that's what you're getting at Derek.
Precisely. Can't completely blame them, either -- those synthesizer sounds were the new toys of the day (same reason why The Who's Who's Next was considered a milestone for its use of synths, but the sounds are a bit quaint together, similar to '80s New Wave keyboards). Led Zeppelin used a lot of keyboards as well, but by employing sounds that weren't dated, the recordings survived the ravages of time better. And "dated" doesn't necessarily mean bad -- I love Giorgio Moroder's works. I've been listening to the soundtrack to The Neverending Story), and even Top Gun and Flashdance were compositionally brilliant, but sonically Moroder is about as dated '80s as they come. The '80s were tricky -- it seems like in 1987, producers suddenly woke up and started making records sound good again. Appetite for Destruction, Dr. Feelgood, Don't Be Cruel, Tunnel of Love, Faith. Even Sign O' the Times was a pretty substantial leap forward for Prince, sonically.
> I like the way he thinks and he can make U2 sound almost appealing to me, which in
> generally isn't.
Eno and Lanois are still U2's best producers. I like Lanois more than Eno, but Eno and Flood did Zooropa without Lanois, and their styles were perfect for that record.
> "No synthesizers used in the making of this album".
That's Queen. Ho ho ho. All hail the overtly gay front man who can get away with doing a concert in tiny little shorts and nothing else! He probably broke down a lot of barriers by just being too brilliant not to listen to.
www.derekmok.com
> uneven match and I think that's what you're getting at Derek.
Precisely. Can't completely blame them, either -- those synthesizer sounds were the new toys of the day (same reason why The Who's Who's Next was considered a milestone for its use of synths, but the sounds are a bit quaint together, similar to '80s New Wave keyboards). Led Zeppelin used a lot of keyboards as well, but by employing sounds that weren't dated, the recordings survived the ravages of time better. And "dated" doesn't necessarily mean bad -- I love Giorgio Moroder's works. I've been listening to the soundtrack to The Neverending Story), and even Top Gun and Flashdance were compositionally brilliant, but sonically Moroder is about as dated '80s as they come. The '80s were tricky -- it seems like in 1987, producers suddenly woke up and started making records sound good again. Appetite for Destruction, Dr. Feelgood, Don't Be Cruel, Tunnel of Love, Faith. Even Sign O' the Times was a pretty substantial leap forward for Prince, sonically.
> I like the way he thinks and he can make U2 sound almost appealing to me, which in
> generally isn't.
Eno and Lanois are still U2's best producers. I like Lanois more than Eno, but Eno and Flood did Zooropa without Lanois, and their styles were perfect for that record.
> "No synthesizers used in the making of this album".
That's Queen. Ho ho ho. All hail the overtly gay front man who can get away with doing a concert in tiny little shorts and nothing else! He probably broke down a lot of barriers by just being too brilliant not to listen to.
www.derekmok.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 12, 2008 09:04PM |
> Brian himself was a fairly accomplished electronic/avant garde musician with key albums such as
> Another Green World, his early work with Roxy Music... Was he involved with Genesis?
>Don't think so. Same approach, though -- Tony Banks from Genesis, Jon Lord from Deep Purple,
>Keith Emerson from ELP -- all of them were great players, but used way too many keyboards and
>drowned out the mix.
Eno's style wasn't at all similar to Jon Lord of Deep Purple! Eno was more about layering instruments, delays... at least on Another Green World, but good lord! He had the worst choir sound on a rock record! Or maybe it wasn't a rock record... Eno would be more similar to Peter Gabriel than Led Zep or Deep Purple. And speaking of the 80s, I actually preferred the experimental sound of the late 70s/ early 80s... When they were trying out gated reverb on snares, and a whole lot of what nots. Before the gated reverb became commercial cheese and completely overused..
> "No synthesizers used in the making of this album".
Classic line!
www.strypesinpost.com
> Another Green World, his early work with Roxy Music... Was he involved with Genesis?
>Don't think so. Same approach, though -- Tony Banks from Genesis, Jon Lord from Deep Purple,
>Keith Emerson from ELP -- all of them were great players, but used way too many keyboards and
>drowned out the mix.
Eno's style wasn't at all similar to Jon Lord of Deep Purple! Eno was more about layering instruments, delays... at least on Another Green World, but good lord! He had the worst choir sound on a rock record! Or maybe it wasn't a rock record... Eno would be more similar to Peter Gabriel than Led Zep or Deep Purple. And speaking of the 80s, I actually preferred the experimental sound of the late 70s/ early 80s... When they were trying out gated reverb on snares, and a whole lot of what nots. Before the gated reverb became commercial cheese and completely overused..
> "No synthesizers used in the making of this album".
Classic line!
www.strypesinpost.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 12, 2008 09:09PM |
>That's Queen. Ho ho ho. All hail the overtly gay front man who can get away with doing a concert
>in tiny little shorts and nothing else! He probably broke down a lot of barriers by just being too
>brilliant not to listen to.
Haha. Queen was the 1980s equivalent of Burt Bacharach... almost... They should be ranked as the top few composers with the most number of singable catchy pop songs to their name... Both very dated music, and with Queen (outfits included).
www.strypesinpost.com
>in tiny little shorts and nothing else! He probably broke down a lot of barriers by just being too
>brilliant not to listen to.
Haha. Queen was the 1980s equivalent of Burt Bacharach... almost... They should be ranked as the top few composers with the most number of singable catchy pop songs to their name... Both very dated music, and with Queen (outfits included).
www.strypesinpost.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 12, 2008 09:40PM |
> Eno's style wasn't at all similar to Jon Lord of Deep Purple!
No, not quite...more the interest in keyboards. While I'm not a huge fan of Eno's music on its own (I like more passionate, emotional music -- such as U2, Led Zeppelin, Phil Spector or Neil Young), he has one of my favourite approaches to music. He says, "When I make a record, I don't want to get a picture of four guys on a stage...I want to paint a picture, like cinema".
One UK producer, Huw Price, said that less is always more on record, and while I respect him, I think it's misleading. Less isn't always more. Less is often more if you're Television, The Ramones, Buddy Holly, LL Cool J, Guns N' Roses, or Johnny Cash. But he can't be telling us that "Kashmir" didn't need that Moroccan mellotron. Or "Be My Baby" didn't need the layered percussion and string section. Even for modern examples, Nicole Atkins' Neptune City, Sarah Slean's The Baroness, Arcade Fire's Neon Bible, Bruce Springsteen's The Rising, Dot Allison's Afterglow, Keane's Under the Iron Sea...none of them is great because of minimalism; they are great because of layered sounds mushing into one borderless, often amorphous, but emotive and organic whole, not because of very sharply defined parts where you can hear every note by every instrument. Many modern recordings obsess far too much about "cleanliness" that they forget that blending all the elements can be great.
www.derekmok.com
No, not quite...more the interest in keyboards. While I'm not a huge fan of Eno's music on its own (I like more passionate, emotional music -- such as U2, Led Zeppelin, Phil Spector or Neil Young), he has one of my favourite approaches to music. He says, "When I make a record, I don't want to get a picture of four guys on a stage...I want to paint a picture, like cinema".
One UK producer, Huw Price, said that less is always more on record, and while I respect him, I think it's misleading. Less isn't always more. Less is often more if you're Television, The Ramones, Buddy Holly, LL Cool J, Guns N' Roses, or Johnny Cash. But he can't be telling us that "Kashmir" didn't need that Moroccan mellotron. Or "Be My Baby" didn't need the layered percussion and string section. Even for modern examples, Nicole Atkins' Neptune City, Sarah Slean's The Baroness, Arcade Fire's Neon Bible, Bruce Springsteen's The Rising, Dot Allison's Afterglow, Keane's Under the Iron Sea...none of them is great because of minimalism; they are great because of layered sounds mushing into one borderless, often amorphous, but emotive and organic whole, not because of very sharply defined parts where you can hear every note by every instrument. Many modern recordings obsess far too much about "cleanliness" that they forget that blending all the elements can be great.
www.derekmok.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 13, 2008 06:25AM |
> more the interest in keyboards.
Haha. I never viewed synthesizers as a 'musical instrument' per se- like a saxophone or a violin. It's more of a staple for electronic music and synthesis. The guitar couldn't have been it, though jimi hendrix and a few others did notable work on it, but ultimately the instrument for synthesis has to be the keyboards, because the attack is too sharp and noticeable on a guitar, and the fact that you have the same notes on different positions, makes it a bit too complicated to be a synth. Keys are more easily programable, and the range allows you both bass and treble clefs...
> He says, "When I make a record, I don't want to get a picture of four guys on a stage...I
>want to paint a picture, like cinema".
It's not surprising. Bach's operatic works weren't about putting a choir on stage. In as many words, it could be said it's like a virtual cinema- 5.1 stereo... Eno isn't a traditional rock and roller. He has his roots in avant garde music and sound design- being involved with the fluxus movement, terry riley and all...
www.strypesinpost.com
Haha. I never viewed synthesizers as a 'musical instrument' per se- like a saxophone or a violin. It's more of a staple for electronic music and synthesis. The guitar couldn't have been it, though jimi hendrix and a few others did notable work on it, but ultimately the instrument for synthesis has to be the keyboards, because the attack is too sharp and noticeable on a guitar, and the fact that you have the same notes on different positions, makes it a bit too complicated to be a synth. Keys are more easily programable, and the range allows you both bass and treble clefs...
> He says, "When I make a record, I don't want to get a picture of four guys on a stage...I
>want to paint a picture, like cinema".
It's not surprising. Bach's operatic works weren't about putting a choir on stage. In as many words, it could be said it's like a virtual cinema- 5.1 stereo... Eno isn't a traditional rock and roller. He has his roots in avant garde music and sound design- being involved with the fluxus movement, terry riley and all...
www.strypesinpost.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 13, 2008 09:17AM |
> I never viewed synthesizers as a 'musical instrument' per se- like a saxophone or a violin. It's
> more of a staple for electronic music and synthesis.
It's not that I don't consider it a musical instrument; it's that those prog-rock '70s guys often used very anemic tones, and played way too much. Deep Purple's Jon Lord was the worst -- "Smoke on the Water" may be the most anemic-sounding of all rock classics from a sonic front, because there's way too much watery rock organ and almost no rhythm guitar in the mix. The drums were also far too timid. The Band, on the other hand, tended to mix keyboards in better, despite having two keyboard players!
Jane Child's "Don't Wanna Fall in Love" from 1990 is one of the great synth performances, with a solo whose emotional content rivals a guitar solo. Maybe the only synth solo I've heard that can do that:
www.derekmok.com
> more of a staple for electronic music and synthesis.
It's not that I don't consider it a musical instrument; it's that those prog-rock '70s guys often used very anemic tones, and played way too much. Deep Purple's Jon Lord was the worst -- "Smoke on the Water" may be the most anemic-sounding of all rock classics from a sonic front, because there's way too much watery rock organ and almost no rhythm guitar in the mix. The drums were also far too timid. The Band, on the other hand, tended to mix keyboards in better, despite having two keyboard players!
Jane Child's "Don't Wanna Fall in Love" from 1990 is one of the great synth performances, with a solo whose emotional content rivals a guitar solo. Maybe the only synth solo I've heard that can do that:
www.derekmok.com
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Re: OT: Oblique Strategies May 14, 2008 02:44PM |
I personally like many genres - today I am mostly listening to "Rock Star" by Nickleback and "Everything I'm Not" by The (lovely and extremely talented) Veronicas from Australia...
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