Big No, No?

I have been told that its a bad idea to run qt files off the system drive or desktop when laying them off to dvcam tape via firweire, what i need to know is what are the potential pitfalls and problems created by doing it this way?

? Dropped Frames
? System Lock Up could corrupt your entire project

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Massive explosion.

No...not really. What Joey said. You're using SimpleVideoOut? I've done it. I've been naughty and actually played media from my system drive. But sooner or later I get slapped for it.

- Loren
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Although this is much less likely these days. In the beginning it was a really big no no. Now, it's not so bad, although not recommended. I do layoffs from the desktop for projects 30 minutes and under and it's not a problem.

I keep some template files (slate and countdown, mostly) on my system drive. No issues. Just don't capture directly to the thing, and don't fill it up too much.


www.derekmok.com

it really isnt a big no-no.

just a gently warning.

in the past when firewire drives were more problematic, many people HAD to lay off to tape from the system drive.


nick

Thanks for the replies guys.

The only thing i can see bad about it the way we do it here is that we are outputting 5 20 minute quicktimes to tape via firewire and i have been having a real tough time of things. I had 5 episodes rejected because 6 frames of the first episode froze while the audio carried on, causing everything to go out of sync further down the line. I have begun to do them separately and been finding pops and clicks come up in the audio or the audio and image skip a frame as it jolting or sticking.

Seems to be numerous problems that as far as i can make out is either due to the disk its running off or the firwire transmission....

also what are the pro's and cons of what we do (printing off the timeline) and the print to video option?

thanks,

chris.

so you're having problems playing back off a fw dive?

if the system dive is really your only other option, definitely give it a go.

other things people used to do to remedy dropped frames was to strip FCP back as much as possible to reduce RAM load.

export a self contianed quicktime move of your show/s & import them into a new, simple project.
close all other projects

no waveforms,
no thumbnails,
no mirror on desktop,
close all windows you don't need.
(reminds me: overlapping windows used to be an issue)


good luck,
nick

PTV will force a render on the show,
although i'm not sure if it will render the "full quality" segments.

it will also force an audio mixdown.
this is a render of sorts, and the file for it will go to wherever you have set as your scratch disks

if you are playing back self contained quicktimes (which i think you might be) then that is not necessary.

PTV should abort capture on dropped frames (that's the default setting in your prefs)
simple play from timeline may not, as many people have that preference turned off,
but of course you can always turn it back on!


nick

Thanks nick, my scqt files are all on the system drive then brought into a new timeline and project to play out through firewire to my dsr-11.

I'll try and turn off waveforms and other ram saving measures.

i've cleared the firewire cache and tried crossing my fingers lots but to no avail! I was told that what i see and hear playing back is not necessarily what will be on the tape, which i have found after spending hours watching stuff for it to be sent back with little faults!

I have my dropped frame thingy on just in case and it does stop playback when frames are dropped but its something happening in the actual transfer that i think is causing my woes.....

so you ARE running off the system drive???

man, i wish you would give more info in your posts!

i don't know what is failing for you, system rive or fw drive.
well if one doesn't work, try the other, i guess!

maybe you should try another deck, or even a camera?


nick

Sorry for the lack of info things are a bit hairy here having to qc stuff re-lay off, scream a bit.... you know how it goes..... Tried using a dsr-45 and the mech packed in, used a hvr-m25e on another machine (tho same spec and set up as my one using the system drive) and it puts just as many stalls and blips and pops as was with the other.

It dosent appear in all episodes either, one seems to be plagued while the one after is clear..... some nasty digital pixie magic is at work.......

> I had 5 episodes rejected because 6 frames of the first episode froze while the audio carried on,
> causing everything to go out of sync further down the line.

I assume you've already checked those QuickTime files and the issue isn't actually on the files themselves, right?

Sometimes a video file can have bad data embedded that is undetectable if you just play the file on a computer, but causes issues when made into MPEG-2, burned to DVD, or when you attempt to play it out to tape. How consistent is the problem? Does it happen at the same spots in the episodes every time?

We also haven't ruled out a simple dirty-deck issue. If you're like 95 per cent of DSR-11 users out there, you've lost the door to the thing and now it's a gaping, grande bouche, dust-eater. Have you run a cleaning tape on it yet? Also, are you using new DV tapes? What about DVCam tapes instead of Mini-DV tapes?


www.derekmok.com

Thanks Derek,

The quicktimes are all fine and the bad spots seem to appear at random and in different places each time i re-do it. I'm using DVCAM 184N Tapes and the door to the dsr-11 is still there but that might not mean it dosent need a clean, will look into it when i get in tomorrow!

I assume recording over a tape too may times is bad also? have only done it twice so far on a couple of spots.....

> I assume recording over a tape too may times is bad also?

Yes. Especially DV tapes, which are remarkably fragile. And if you use a DV tape in a bad or dirty device once, it can make permanent dings on the tape and make future recordings unusable.

Is each episode of your show so long that you have to use 184-minute tapes? The longer the tape, the more likely it is to have problems.


www.derekmok.com

Do you have any material that might be copyright protected in the episodes? DSR's will freeze when playing these out to tape, to stop copyright infrigement.

Also, you say the quicktimes are fine, but did you use any odd audio sources, like Mp3?

each episode is 20-22 minutes in length plus feature credits at the end at 50 seconds so its a fair amount, am starting to think along the dirty heads route.

We have a license for all the music used, no mp3 all aiff, think i'll do some cleaning.......

And use a shorter tape. One tape per episode. The only good reason to use a 184-minute tape is if you're shooting a long unbroken event, or if you have a single show approaching the three-hour mark.


www.derekmok.com

Cheers derek, funnily enough thats exactly what i have done as i found it easier to manage and qc.

thanks again everyone for your help!

chris.