Renaming file to match clip on P2s

Ok, I haven't really done a test on this yet, but if I use the "rename file to match clip" option in FCP 6, can I still recapture the files from the original P2 mxf clips? Any ideas?



www.strypesinpost.com

Yes. I tested it right now and it works. That is how I figure out if things work...I test it.

Dude...all you need to do is test. Grab a card dump, import one clip. rename it. make it offline. Recapture. You could have figured it out yourself. What kind of lazy Mod are you?

Sheesh...newb mods...


www.shanerosseditor.com

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Thanks Shane! Lol... Down with the flu over the weekend. Don't have mxf files or P2 cards at home to test it out... Yet... New kit is on the way..



www.strypesinpost.com

Shane,

You may have misunderstood Gerad's question.
If you use the "rename file to match clip" option on a file, which was already converted from P2 to a folder of the project, FCP will loose any connection to the original P2 - at least obviously - and you can't just reconnect offline files in the standard way.
But there is another even easier way - as long the original P2 folders are available - open the "log & transfer" window and drag the offline file(s) to the "drag media here" window and Final Cut will re-import them.

Andreas

Okay... now I MUST test it out myself... Haven't touched mxf files for months. It's a lot simpler with tapes (reel names, TC..). Not sure how FCP connects to MXF source files- Does it still use Reel and TC information?



www.strypesinpost.com

>Not sure how FCP connects to MXF source files- Does it still use Reel and TC information?

It uses clip ID's. Each clip contains a unique clip ID number that is dedicated to only that clip. When you log and ingest a clip through Log and Transfer, the clip ID is stored in the clip within your project.

Ah.. Thanks, Andy. That explains a lot. And it should work. I'll double check just to be safe when i get the clips. That will cut down a bit of time going through the log and transfer tool...



www.strypesinpost.com

Gerard,

MXF from device/manufacturer A is not MXF from device/manufacturer B. It's a container type similar to QuickTime. So I currently know quite a bit about Panasonic P2.

If you use the "log & transfer" to import P2 files into Final Cut Pro the metadata of these files will be written into a "QuickTime metadata" entry of the transcoded file. These data are not available thru the user interface, but you can see them if you export an XML.

So what can happen if a transcoded file goes offline.
a) it's still somewhere on the available drives and you can use the standard "reconnect media ..."
b) it's nowhere; Final Cut can't find it because it searches for the wrong file. But as internally a lot of the P2 metadata are stored (and "log & transfer" is an external program linked to Final Cut) these data can be used to find the original P2 data if they are still at the place where they had been before you converted them. That's like transcoding plus reconnecting again.

As Andy said the files do use IDs internally to find clips, but TC and reel are used as well while reconnecting the file.
The TC of P2 file comes from the TC stored in the MXF, but MXF doesn't store a real reel number we are used to and so most of the transcoding apps (including FCP's "log & transfer" use the P2 folder name - this is the easiest approach, but not really the best one. A better idea would be to use the UMID which is stored inside the MXF and allows to identify each clip by it's native reel - there is a disadvantage with this approach: the reel number isn't that short as you're used when you work with tapes.
But anyway, if the transcoded file is gone even the ID doesn't help.

Another approach (even though not cheap) is to use mxf4mac component. This component allows to work natively with the P2 files and therefore it will allow a standard "reconnect media ..." within Final Cut Pro. It also speeds up the import into FCP dramatically. You even can open a single .mxf video in QT Player to preview.

As some people know FCP XML is one of my hobbies and so I helped a bit to make this component even a bit better - for example you get all markers of a P2 clip, beside the other metadata if you use their CM. It also allows to use the native MXF files with a lot of applications. This makes it a bit more a workflow component than just a "log & transfer" app even if there is no (or with the P2 CM a minimal) interface.

Andreas

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]

Thanks for the info, Andreas! That makes working with P2 material a lot more understandable... But I'll definitely test that out..

You can rename the qt converted clip in Log and Transfer, then reconnect them to the mxf files and reconvert to mov later on, as Shane demonstrated in his video...

Just that sometimes I'm brought into a project late, and clips may have already been "digitized", and I could end up seeing a lot of cryptic numbers in the project and finder. Naturally, I can leave the naming of the clips alone, or rename them in FCP (which is what I usually do). Being able to use FCP's "rename file to match clip" function and still be able to reconnect them later on would be cool if I have to ever do media management on the Finder level..

>most of the transcoding apps (including FCP's "log & transfer" use the P2 folder name -
>this is the easiest approach, but not really the best one

This is definitely a good reason not to leave them as "no name" folders!

The ability to work native in mxf containers is definitely a must have if you're working long term with mxf sources.... Then with the apps, comes the issue of ppc (urgh!) universal binary support...



www.strypesinpost.com

Hi Gerard,

> Then with the apps, comes the issue of ppc (urgh!) universal binary support...

Below a workflow I build around the native MXF support. The screen capture is done a G5 2x2Ghz PPC with slow USB drives. So this is quite slow
These are some P2 folders (around 70 files) and a BWAV folder (around 300 files). The BWAVs metadata are and compared to the P2 XML metadata. The clip names are automatically created from the scene/take of the BWAV and the angle which is set in the prefs for each camera serial number in the P2 card. This will be used to create synched clips - MXF video with multichannel external audio. I could even combine the MXF audio and external audio. All metadata from both BWAV and P2 are available in FCP to the user.
Handling the stuff native is a big advantage against transcoding as the AV components are handled as independent tracks. If you transcode the files you can "capture" audio and video to different locations but the video always will have a "hardlink" to the audio - and you can't replace that with external audio though this is easy to do in FCP. The problem is that the link internally is kept (as it is in the file). So media managing the project will bring up the old audio plus the new audio, but only will show the new in the timeline but not in browser - that's makes the managed project some kind of garbage in my oppinion.
The only thing you can do to prevent is to capture the MXF audio/video each separately (two steps) then reconnect them in in FCP.

Andreas

Sync Workflow

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]

Hmm... thanks, Andreas. I'll definitely check that out in a bit..

A side question on QT metadata... I'm pretty sure this can be done somehow, as Compressor and DVDSP definitely reads it- Compression markers/DVDSP markers. When I export a sequence as a QT file, and select "compression markers", the edit points are stored on the QT file. That's cool for GOP encoding.

But when I insert that QT file as part of a longer sequence in FCP... I was wondering if there is a way to keep the old edit/compression markers so that they show up in future exports?



www.strypesinpost.com

Gerard,

These are two different things: metadata and tracks.
All the markers are on separate track in a QT movie. FCP only reads 1st video track and all audio tracks. This makes it impossible to import anything other like that and all your masking tracks, text, markers or whatever things are gone.
Metadata are stored on another level of the file which will be read by FCP during import but are not available to the user - except you run Final Cut Server.
But as always you could use XML to make it work with an external app ;-)

Andreas

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]

Thanks, Andreas!



www.strypesinpost.com

> You may have misunderstood Gerad's question.
> If you use the "rename file to match clip" option
> on a file, which was already converted from P2 to
> a folder of the project, FCP will loose any
> connection to the original P2 - at least obviously
> - and you can't just reconnect offline files in
> the standard way.

He didn't say RECONNECT, he said "an I still recapture the files from the original P2 mxf clips?" And yes, you can. You can rename the clips in the L&T window, you can rename them in the finder, or via the RENAME option...and FCP can reimport them by using Batch Capture.

> But there is another even easier way - as long the
> original P2 folders are available - open the "log
> & transfer" window and drag the offline file(s) to
> the "drag media here" window and Final Cut will
> re-import them.

Yes, you can, but that won't reconnect them in the timeline, especially if you renamed them...and if you marked IN and OUT and only imported PART of clips. But, if you do BATCH CAPTURE with the drive with the MXF files on the it, then it will import them, rename them, keep the IN and OUT points, and reconnect them in the project and timeline.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Quote
Gerard aka strypes
... but if I use the "rename file to match clip" option in FCP 6, can I still recapture the files from the original P2 mxf clips? Any ideas?

Shane you're right if you got the original P2 stuff you can recapture - I was the guy who misunderstood.

Anyway both of us are wrong if the original P2 content is not at the proper place (original path of the P2 folder when transcoding) on disk or not available anymore as P2 card.

Andreas

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]