FCP & original timecode

I have another issue. I am making a video for a broadcaster with my Panasonic HDX500 HD camera. It records to 32GB cards which I download to portable drives.

The problem: my original time code on my cards/drives gets replaced by the broadcaster with a new time code. Their processs is to load my video to FCP: "We take your footage and string it out in Final Cut and then add slates per the different Cards." They then export to tape for archive, then send me DVD screeners with the new time code from FCP (which does not match my original logs).

Is there a way in FCP when they load my footage to keep the original time code?

Best,

Doug Bertran

Well, a video DVD would not have any timecode at all. If you want them to preserve the timecode on the tapes they output, then they'd have to change the timecode on their Sequence (which they use for the tape output) to match your original clips, and prep their blank tapes to take the incoming timecode.


www.derekmok.com

Why the &%#* are they doing that? Are they brain dead? Sorry, but if they had ANY clue at all, they wouldn't be doing this...not even with TAPED material. Why are they adding slates? What purpose does that serve?

They need to SERIOUSLY re-examine their workflow. It is fatally flawed.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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The TC reader filter in FCP will take the original TC from your video and burn it in the frame. When they give you DVD screeners they are either applying the TC generator filter which creates new, arbitrary TC in FCP, or else they are using the TC generator in Compressor (which does the same thing).

You need to tell them to use the TC reader filter in FCP and then export the video for DVD.

andy

We use the TC Generator in Compressor all the time for window burns to be used in QC and haven't had any problems.

What do you mean when you say that the TC generator in FCP and Compressor generates arbitrary TC?

Of coarse for QC I'm only interested in the time line TC not the source TC. I guess that's where the TC reader filter comes into play?

That's exactly what I mean. The TC generator generates TC based on the TC you tell it to start on. The default is 00:00:00;00. If your sequence has starting TC of 01:00:00;00, the TC generator still defaults to 00:00:00;00 and you have to apply an offset in the controls to get it to match. Same with the TC generator in Compressor. I say it's arbitrary because it's dependent upon what you tell it.

In contrast, the TC reader reads the metadata from the digitized video. This is especially important if you need to refer to specific points on your tapes. A typical situation might be:

A producer/director is watching DVD screeners of all their footage, and they want to make sure that you the editor use a specific take from a scene. That senario only works if both the producer/director and the editor are referring to the same TC.

Andy

Or they can get PROXIE MILL and automate this entire process.

[www.imagineproducts.com]

Makes the proxies have the source timecode as well, so if you want to get started editing with them, you can.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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My sentiments exactly, but for the moment I need a fix for my project.

I receive DVD screeners with new burned in T/C. I want the original T/C.

DougB

Then you need to have them redo the footage properly, or have them send you the ORIGINAL P2 files for you to import, or have them send you the original P2 files. What they are doing is absolutely stupid. Even if they get the proper timecode reader onto that footage, it will be useless for editing, as the exported files will STILL have the sequence code and not the original camera code.

I reiterate...stupid @$$ workflow.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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Andy, thanks very much!

DougB

Are you ignoring me because I am being foul mouthed?




www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
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Maybe the signature scared him off!


www.derekmok.com

I thought Shane captured the flavor of the workflow very wlel.

(But Dude, you look scary in hair. You look like a Missoula mountain man! Like Derek and the hat-- Derek, I told you, the war is over ;-)

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Fit Timeline Selection to Window with Shift-Option-Z !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

I thought Shane captured the flavor of the workflow very well.

(But Dude, you look scary in hair. You look like a Missoula mountain man! Like Derek and the hat-- Derek, I told you, the war is over ;-)

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Fit Timeline Selection to Window with Shift-Option-Z !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

I AM a Missoula Mountain Man...


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
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> Derek, I told you, the war is over

But it lives on in my head...in my head...in my head...

(Cue Vietnam sound FX with reverb and backwards masking)


www.derekmok.com

DougB,

Can't you just ask them to email their FCP project file? This would solve your TC problem and it sounds counter-intuitive for you to wait for the DVD. After all, you are the guy with the original footage.

And yes, replacing valid TC with home-made fairytale TC is retarded. Not useful at all... They should be spanked ...

Here is their work flow:
1) I send in hard drives with original T/C that I have logged in the field, they transfer to FCP.
2) From FCP they output to tape for archive with new time code. They send me DVD of the footage to screen with the new timecode burned on it.

I have no original footage left, I format the cards for new footage.

So, will using the FCP T/C filter allow original T/C to stay in FCP and be generated to the tape and DVD?

Best,

DougB

Quote
DougB
So, will using the FCP T/C filter allow original T/C to stay in FCP and be generated to the tape and DVD?

Yes. The TC Reader filter in FCP does exactly that. It creates a visible burn of the metadata TC that was recorded when the original footage was shot.

Andy

Oh, I see. They are using a stupid assed workflow. OK, now I see what is going on.

Why the hell shoot tapeless if all you are going to do is waste twice...no, three to FOUR times as much time to string it out, lay it to tape, then capture the tape? Why not shoot TAPE?

Ah the old school people and their refusal to embrace new technology. God bless their hearts.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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>It creates a visible burn of the metadata TC that was recorded when the original footage was shot.

I don't see what is going on.

1. P2 footage goes into FCP, slate is added, and you want to keep original timecode? That timecode (and whatever metadata/clip IDs that is generated by the P2 camera) is as good as useless, since you don't have the P2 footage anymore.

2. The timecode reader generates a a burnt in timecode window that goes onto tape/DVD. No one uses a burnt in timecode window on tape unless you're working with film. If you want to export to tape with the original P2 timecode, it is not adviseable as you will encounter timecode breaks (and it will take a long time, and it's quite pointless, since you can't recapture to that timecode anymore).



www.strypesinpost.com

Sorry,

The flow is I record on to P2 cards. I log footage by original T/C. I download to portable hard drives and send the drives to the broadcaster.

The broadcaster transfers the footage to FCP. They output to tape with a new timecode for their archive. And From FCP they output to DVD with burn in T/C for me to screen.

Of course my original T/C on my logs does not match their new timecode.

I am seeking to keep original T/C thoughout the flow. SDo that their tape and subsequent DVD match my original T/C.

Doug B

As far as I can figure, this is simply not possible. If you're dubbing your footage to tape with new, continuous timecode on it, your original timecode goes away. That's just a fact of life.

If that's going to be your workflow, then yes, you need to stop logging off the P2 media and log off the tape dubs. The tape dubs become your new originals, the source to which you'll always refer back later in the workflow.

Yes, those dubbed tapes become your new originals, because the metadata required to recapture from the source material was not preserved through the workflow. In the tape days, we call it timecode integrity. We keep a copy of the original tapes and make sure timecode integrity is preserved.

With tapeless media, timecode isn't used for recapturing, but rather unique clip IDs. The workflow is to archive that original source files onto hard drive. You don't ditch the original source, just like you don't ditch the original tapes.



www.strypesinpost.com

So, simply..., its not possible to keep the original T/C in that work flow?

They are creating new time code, but can I - in any way shape or form - keep the original T/C when capturing on FCP, then going to tape?

DougB

No. Once they go to tape all of the original timecode is gone. As is ALL of the metadata, including what card this came from and everything. Gone.

So you cannot import from the P2 card, then later try to recapture from the tape, nor can you use ANY of the information on that P2 card for your editing or logging purposed. Once it goes to tape, that tape is now the master.

Again...stupid and outright dumb workflow for P2. Costs more money, takes 3 times as long...

Ingest...x1
Lay in FCP sequence and output to tape. x2
Recapture from tape. x3

Oh, then you need to rent a deck to output to..and another to capture from, since you are in different locations, right?

Whatever...it is their money..


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
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Well, just addressing the "stupid and dumb" part ? yes, it certainly might be. On the other hand, I know folks who shoot Red (which is tapeless, recording to drive or CF card) for HD delivery, and their first step in post is to dub all their footage to SR tape.

The difference is, in those cases, the original camera files get thrown away, and the SR tape becomes the original camera tape for all intents and purposes.

If these guys wanted to do the same thing, for whatever reason, they certainly could do that. But the price you pay is discarding all metadata, including camera timecode. There are workflows that could be devised where that's okay, or even desirable. But from the description, this isn't one of them.