OT: Migration from G5 to 8 core

Hello

I have recently purchased the 8 core MacPro and the Mac specialist that I bought it from
did a migration from my old system and I seem to be having some funny thing happening in final cut.

For example... I am exporting a simple 1:28:20 minute sequence and I keep getting an abort window at about the 7 minute mark. And wondering if anyone knows about speed with this machine... is it normal for a sequence under 2 minutes with widescreen filter, color correction, and two tracks plus a motion to take up to 10 minutes?

Another concern I am having is roundtripping from motion to FCP. A very basic text with basic 3d motion is requiring up to minute to render (doesn't sound like a lot but when I get a few in here and make changes it sure does feel like a lot).

And one more... when I open my project, the sequence that has aborted export requires re rendering.... any idea on this one?

I have done a re install of FCP, plus trashing preferences, but am now wondering if I need to change some preferences or... well not sure at this point. I am so looking forward to this machine but am feeling deflated, if any one can offer support that would be wonderful.

paulina

Quote

...the Mac specialist that I bought it from did a migration from my old system

...oooops - big mistake. NEVER do a "migration" from an old system to a new one. A real "Specialist" would have told you that. ALWAYS do fresh installs. I would wipe & start over.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Yeah, moving complex software packages like Final Cut Studio from one system to another is tricky at the best of times, but doubly so when you're moving between architectures like you did.

It's gonna be a pain, but you really should back up all your data and do an erase-and-install of Mac OS X on your system, then reinstall all your applications, hardware drivers, plug-ins and so on. That's the only way to guarantee that your system is correctly configured.

Yep a fresh install of everything is necessary especially when going from PPC to Intel based Macs

I tested this out (for the sake of interest) when I first got my 8 core from my G5 to see if it would work but I had even worse issues than you describe.

Reformat the internal HDD on your 8 Core and install the whole system again.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Hello again,

I have done the erase and install and am still having a few issues.... the pesky Render pop up window appears telling me to turn RT render off, or close sequences or lower compression rate, get a faster machine etc. Are there some settings I should be changing with this machine?
Thanks for your help...
paulina

What kind of framestore do you have? The "dropped frames" alert usually indicates that you don't have enough disk bandwidth to play back your timeline in real time.

Hi thanks for you message...

I'm uncertain as to what 'framestore' means.... I am working on an 8 core MacPro, the base system. I purchased it for the speed and power, so this seems rather odd to me. How do I test
for bandwidth?
thanks again,
paulina

Your framestore is the thing that stores your frames. It's the storage device where your media lives. Big box next to your system, usually says something like "Caldigit" or "G-Technology." on it.

Is this external? (please excuse my ignorance)... if it is, I don't have one! Any suggestions on a solution? thanks, paulina

framestore = cool industry speak for "the drive youve assigned as your scratch disk."

if you did not manually assign a scratch disk, fcp automatically assigns it to the documents folder on your boot drive.

be it a secondary internal or an external drive setup. it is HIGHLY advisable to have a separate physical storage volume for your scratch disk.

Framestore - on FCP is called the Scratch Disk - aka Media Drive aka Video Storage, etc, etc...

Quote

Is this external? (please excuse my ignorance)... if it is, I don't have one! Any suggestions on a solution? thanks, paulina

That could be your problem right there! I'm assuming your scratch disk is set to the internal system HDD - the Mac HDD.

One thing we tell people is never use the internal system HDD for your video media.

Tell us what sort of things you are cutting and what format eg: SD or HD - DV, HDV, DVDproHD, XDCAM, ProRes, Uncompressed etc...

This way we can come up with some suggestions that cover a variety of price ranges to fit your budget.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Shane's Stock Answer #43 - Types of hard drives and how they compare when working with video

Drive types and how good they are when it comes to dealing with video...

USB 2 = BAD
Firewire = GOOD
e-SATA = more GOOD
Internal SATA (not system drive) = more better GOOD
eSATA RAID = more MORE better GOOD
4 gig FIbre = Just about the best you can get! (great for SAN networks)
External PCIe = Da Bomb! 5 times faster than Fibre


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

grafixjoe loves it when shane refers to himself in the 3rd person

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Quote

External PCIe = Da Bomb! 5 times faster than Fibre

If you have enough drives in your framestore to saturate a four-gigabit fibre link, then God bless you, my son.

Thank you so much for your feedback. The problem still continues.... I have just rendered a short 7 minute piece (the line reads blue), HDV 1080i 60, motion titles, in Color correction, widescreen filter, I go to play it back and boom, the Warning - Dropped Frames appears! arggg!

I changed my scratch from my Mac HD to my 700 GB internal drive (350 GB remaining)...

I'm at a loss...

thanks for any and all information,

paulina

Can you give us a more detailed breakdown of your whole system - your internal 700GB HDD is a separate physical one from your System HDD and not simply a partition is it?

Also what type of HDD is it a SATA II 7200 RPM HDD or a slower 5400 RPM SATA HDD?

Are you rendering ProRes or HDV?

Are you clipping the Canvas window at all? e.g. zoomed in so that the scroll bars are showing? Or is the Canvas window slightly off screen or in-between 2 displays?

Resize the canvas window to 50% and give the video some room (no scroll bars) and try the playback again.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Hi

Yes, the 700GB is a separate physical drive within my system, it is not partitioned.

Looking in About this Mac: under FireWire > FireWire Bus:

Built-in-hub: Manufacturer: Unknown, Model: Unknown, Maximum Speed: Up to 800 Mb/sec, Connection speed: unknown (thinking this the 700GB drive)
USB20 Drive 149 GB external
Oxford IDE Device 297 GB external
I don't see any information on the Mac HDD.
(all drives are active)

Rendering ProRes 422.

No canvas clipping. No spill over into the other monitor.

Just tried what you suggested and no luck, the render pop appears still.

thanks for your time and knowledge,

paulina

The internal HDDs are under Serial-ATA

Also you might check what your scratch disk is set to

Make sure under System Settings that it isn't set to the Mac HDD



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

ah ha found it, thanks.

it reads:
Vendor: Intel
Product: ICH10 AHCI
Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.20 Supported

WDC WD6400AAKS-41H2B0:

and the scratch is set to my 700 GB drive.

Thats the Controller not the HDD connected to it!

You see on the Device Tree to the left of each of the controllers if there is an HDD connected then there will be a triangle pointed down and the Manufacturer of the HDD under each controller.


WDC WD6400AAKS-41H2B0: < I am presuming this is your 640GB internal Mac HDD

What is your 700GB?

Highlight either the controller or the HDD underneath and then in the information copy and paste the whole lot. Like so:

Intel ESB2 AHCI:

Vendor: Intel
Product: ESB2 AHCI
Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.10 Supported

SAMSUNG HD103UJ:

Capacity: 931.51 GB
Model: SAMSUNG HD103UJ
Revision: 1AA01112
Serial Number: S13PJ1NQ600306
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk2
Bay Name: "Bay 1"
Mac OS 9 Drivers: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
MacPro HDD:
Capacity: 931.19 GB
Available: 383.3 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk2s2
Mount Point: /



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

ok... here it is, plus the 700 GB drive is here too.


Intel ICH10 AHCI:

Vendor: Intel
Product: ICH10 AHCI
Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.20 Supported

WDC WD6400AAKS-41H2B0:

Capacity: 596.17 GB
Model: WDC WD6400AAKS-41H2B0
Revision: 07.04C07
Serial Number: WD-WMASY6818874
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Bay Name: "Bay 1"
Mac OS 9 Drivers: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Macintosh HD:
Capacity: 595.85 GB
Available: 393.91 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /

and

Intel ICH10 AHCI:

Vendor: Intel
Product: ICH10 AHCI
Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.20 Supported

ST3750330AS:

Capacity: 698.64 GB
Model: ST3750330AS
Revision: SD15
Serial Number: 3QK0549S
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk1
Bay Name: "Bay 2"
Mac OS 9 Drivers: No
Partition Map Type: APM (Apple Partition Map)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Big Drive:
Capacity: 698.51 GB
Available: 375.26 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk1s3
Mount Point: /Volumes/Big Drive

One hard drive isn't nearly enough bandwidth to reliably play back ProRes at HD resolutions. At an absolute minimum, you need two internal disks striped in a software RAID set. But that's not a great solution either, because if one of those two disks fails ? and it will, inevitably ? you'll lose your whole framestore. If you're very careful about backups and media management, this can be okay, but it's still really inconvenient.

I will work on getting said internal disks, thanks for the information... in the mean time, do you have any recommendations for render settings, systems settings and pref. with this machine?

Nope. Your system has a big, beefy engine and crappy tires right now, which is why you're having blowouts. Once you put a proper framestore on there, you'll be right as rain.

I do have a tangential question, though ? exactly which Mac specialist sold you a big, powerful, expensive Mac Pro for editing but didn't set you up with any kind of framestore at all?

You could simply render to HDV in the meantime...

...but yes, get a decent RAID for HD work!



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

I have a problem with jeff's word "framestore". "Framestore" (to me) is an antiquated computer system used in our ooooooold Broadcast Facilities used for one purpose: to grab still frames from broadcasts & tapes and store them so they can be pulled up by a switcher or an online editor.

We should be teaching the word "RAID"...not "framestore". It's confusing, IMHO.

Paulina,

Forget internal HDs. Your "specialist" (not so much) should have told you that you need a RAID from the beginning for video editing - especially for ProRes HD. You need one of these (quite inexpensive):

[www.caldigit.com]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Does this mean my system will run 'buggy' and kinda of slow (all relative) until I get a RAID?

Coincidentally, Shane and I were emailing about that yesterday. I got my start on Discreet Logic systems back in the mid-90s, and on both the Flame/Inferno system and on Fire/Smoke the big box that your footage lives on is called the "framestore." On those systems, that was the technical term for that thing, so I just got into the habit, and it stuck.

I don't think calling it a "RAID" would work that well for me, because first of all it often isn't ? low-bit-rate media like DV is often cut right off a single Firewire drive ? and second because you can put anything you want on a RAID, whereas a framestore is a single-purpose media-storage device. You wouldn't put your iTunes library on your framestore, but throwing it over onto some random RAID attached to your system? Sure, why not.

I can't see how it really matters all that much, but if it really gets under your skin, Joey, I'll do my best to break the habit.

And as long as we're being picky about our terms, Paulina, please know that your system is not buggy. It's not malfunctioning. From the sound of it, it's working precisely as it should. It's just not configured with enough storage bandwidth to play back ProRes HD material in real time. You could, if you wanted, just check that little "don't warn me when you drop frames" checkbox and keep on working. You won't be able to work in real time, but you will be able to work. But yes, if you want to work in real time you absolutely need a dedicated external media storage device with sufficient bandwidth to play back at least two streams of your chosen format. Which is what I, to Joey's consternation, I refer to as a "framestore."

paulina, here is the typical setup i use in my octocore macpro. its VERY simple, not uber expensive and works great:

[www.caldigit.com]
gives you 4 eSATA ports

and

[eshop.macsales.com]
be sure to stay with the QUAD interface (gets you all the eSATA port)

hello...

Thank you so much for all your information, this forum is really such a benefit, thanks.

Wayne, you mention two options, do I need both? (again, please excuse my ignorance on this matter). The second option seems a bit inexpensive only running at $219.00, while the others I have researched are around the $1000.00+ mark.

again, thanks.

paulina