freeze frame is darker??

When ever I do 'freeze frame', and then drop that into the timeline, the image is darker. In order to have a single frame frozen I have to copy out a single frame a zillion times. FCP doesnt like this if there are too many.

Anyone know why it does this?

<<< I have to copy out a single frame a zillion times.>>>

What? I don't follow that job flow at all.

What happens if you just export it once and brighten it up with one of the video tools when you re-import it?

You do re-import it, right, not just "open" it?

Koz

> Whenever I do 'freeze frame', and then drop that into the timeline, the
> image is darker.

First let's make sure you're using the right command to do the freeze frame. SHIFT-N.

Second, are you doing the Freeze Frame command in the Viewer or Canvas?

Third, did you apply any filters to the shot that you forgot about? The Freeze Frame will retain any and all image effects you had implemented.

Fourth, even if Freeze Frame isn't working, a better workaround is to export the frame you want (again, take off all effects first) using Export - Using QuickTime Conversion, to a still image format like a TGA or a TIFF. Then re-import into your timeline. Since it's a still graphic file, you can make it as long as you want, rather than try to paste one frame of video multiple times. I used to do that on Adobe Premiere in my first year of learning editing, and it messes with your computer like nobody's business.

>What happens if you just export it once and brighten it up with one of the video >tools when you re-import it?

why should I have to do that? i want a frame, thats frozen, exactly the way i see it.

>First let's make sure you're using the right command to do the freeze frame. SHIFT-N.

Yes. Or by choosing the menu item.

>Second, are you doing the Freeze Frame command in the Viewer or Canvas?

I just tested both and I get the same result.

Canvas or Viewer: doesnt matter...
Freeze Frame (shift N)
(Frame is created in the Viewer Window, and is darker)
Drag frame into timeline.
Drop after the clip and notice that the frozen frame is darker.

>Third, did you apply any filters to the shot that you forgot about? The Freeze Frame will retain any and all image effects you had implemented.

Na. I havent touched the filters.

>Fourth, even if Freeze Frame isn't working, a better workaround is to export the frame you want (again, take off all effects first) using Export - Using QuickTime Conversion, to a still image format like a TGA or a TIFF. Then re-import into your timeline. Since it's a still graphic file, you can make it as long as you want, rather than try to paste one frame of video multiple times. I used to do that on Adobe Premiere in my first year of learning editing, and it messes with your computer like nobody's business.

Yeah I know that megapaste method is a big hack, but it worked, for a few seconds. Enough to get the effect. I'll remember that export frame trick though.

<<<why should I have to do that?>>>

Because sometimes what you have to do to correct it will tell you what's wrong. Black Levels, White Levels, and Gamma problems all happen in different parts of the system.

You need to know that Mac Gamma problems have plagues us from the start. We have many different computer sytems in the building and you can't just whip graphics and animations back and forth between the Mac and everything else. It doesn't work like that.

When you create a still in Mac Photoshop, it's too bright on the screen and the Mac export darkens it down for the file. When FCP Imports that graphic, it brightens it up again so it matches your Photoshop file. It's a 1.1 or 0.9 gamma shift. Trust me, we measured it.

The problem comes when you create the graphic on a *non Mac* system. Then, when FCP brightens it up, it's too bright.

FCP doesn't always do this trick. Some animations do not go through this process, so they will look the same on a PC or a Mac.

If you manage to *Export* as a still from the FCP timeline, but *Import* as an animation, the work will be too dark. You can easily correct it in the Video Levels filter and any minute I'm going to find where I write it down.

Koz

Kozikowski wrote:
> <<<why should I have to do that?>>>
>
> Because sometimes what you have to do to correct it will tell
> you what's wrong.

But this is toally inside FCP. Why does it create the frame darker? Why doesn't it just make a frame that is totally the same, but just 10 seconds long or whatever?

Its like, I say to FCP, Make me a freeze frame of this image, and it does that, but its darker. It should be the same. I'm not going between a Mac and a PC, I'm not exporting or importing anything. I simply choose Make Freeze Frame, and it makes one, but its darker.

This one seems pretty easy to reproduce. Do you see the same thing with whatever version of FCP you run?

<<<But this is toally inside FCP.>>>

You need to stop thinking that right away. Final Cut goes outside for QuickTime tools and Look Up Tables all the time. All or most of the codecs are external modules, etc. etc.

This killed a number of people that upgraded their QuickTime from 6 to 7 and didn't change anything else. All kinds of problems happened when Final Cut stepped on what it thought was normal QuickTime tools and they were different.

<<<This one seems pretty easy to reproduce>>>

I'll try it when I can get on a machine. DV TimeLine?

Koz

Kozikowski wrote:

> <<<But this is toally inside FCP.>>>
>
> You need to stop thinking that right away. Final Cut goes
> outside for QuickTime tools and Look Up Tables all the time.
> All or most of the codecs are external modules, etc. etc.
>
> This killed a number of people that upgraded their QuickTime
> from 6 to 7 and didn't change anything else. All kinds of
> problems happened when Final Cut stepped on what it thought was
> normal QuickTime tools and they were different.

wtg apple! =/

Is there a compiled list of problems anywhere for the 6 to 7 + FCP case?

> <<<This one seems pretty easy to reproduce>>>
>
> I'll try it when I can get on a machine. DV TimeLine?

It actually doesnt matter, the bug occurs in the viewer (where the frame is created). You can have either the viewer or the canvas active when you perform the operation.

>> I'll try it when I can get on a machine. DV TimeLine?
> It actually doesnt matter, the bug occurs in the viewer (where the frame is
> created). You can have either the viewer or the canvas active when you
> perform the operation.

Just answer the question...codec, frame rate, capture settings.

derekmok wrote:
> Just answer the question...codec, frame rate, capture settings.

Standard OfflineRT. Nothing fancy. But then again here, it doesn't matter. Standard DV does the same thing. You do 'Make Freeze Frame' and it makes a dark(er) frame in the viewer.

I'm seriously not trying to be difficult here but this is what I'm seeing with the totally default settings.

One of the clear losers in the version wars was machine connectivity.

[docs.info.apple.com]

This addresses that.

<<<I'm seriously not trying to be difficult>>>

No, no, we can tell you're enjoying every minute.

There are a lot of problems that change with versons of programs and machine configuration. That's why we ask--repeatedly.

A machine is free....

Koz

<<<A machine is free....>>>

OK. I tried the Shift-N thing and put the graphic back into the timeline and the video level and brightness didn't change a bit. This is confirmed with the Waveform Monitor Tool.

DV Timeline
OSX Panther
FCP 4.5
QT 6.5.1

Your serve.

Koz

Kozikowski wrote:
> Your serve.

Ok, it must be QT then because I have the same config except for QT 7.0.4.

Good job Apple!

Sounds like THIS mystery is solved.

Could QT 7 be causing the slipped frames problem in my other thread???

<<<I have the same config except for QT 7.0.4.>>>

Can we suggest it would have been good to tell us that clear at the beginning of this thread?

Classic version cross problem. There was once a tool to throw your QuickTime Version back to 6 for people that had troubles. You may be able to still find it.

Or search the forum for it.


<<<Could QT 7 be causing the slipped frames problem in my other thread???>>>

Probably not, but I'd fix the QT thing first.

Koz

Kozikowski wrote:

> <<<I have the same config except for QT 7.0.4.>>>
>
> Can we suggest it would have been good to tell us that clear at
> the beginning of this thread?

You're right. I guess I just didn't think about QT being in the mix.

> <<<Could QT 7 be causing the slipped frames problem in my other
> thread???>>>
>
> Probably not, but I'd fix the QT thing first.

Won't going back to 6 kill exporting as H.264?
There was a reason I upgraded, but I can't remeber now why...

<<<Won't going back to 6 kill exporting as H.264?>>>

You're right. H.263 and H.264 came with QT7.

<<<There was a reason I upgraded, but I can't remeber now why...>>.

That could be one of them.

Live Video and Audio capture is another QT7 thing. I've been known to capture a TV show with my Canopus, QT7, and a FireWire cable. Look ma, no tape!

Koz