changing background on interview

I am working on a one-hour doc for broadcast. The commissioning editor
has decided he doesn't like the background of an interview. I shot
a professor against a tree with green leaves and green bushes, and some sky, in the background.
The professor is a feisty little guy who bobs and weaves on the screen. Any way to change
the background? I've tried the keys and filters to no avail. Key framing with After Effects would
do it and take a decade. Don't know about Shake, or Motion?Any of your usually brilliant suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If not, it's take a crew and reshoot and hope the professor says the right things, again.

I have almost nothing to help you, except a vague memory of a plug-in called 'make transparent' or something. With that I'm guessing you could progressively make a colour transparent, then export then reimport then do another colour and so on.

Not a lot of help, I know.

If cam is static you can try the difference key in AE with some roto paint the complete background first.

Andreas

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]

And do give KeyLight a try! One popular technique doubles-up layers of KeyLight, extra layers for troublesome additional colors. Might be useful. Dunno, never used it for anything but one-click greenscreen, but its additional tweak functions are amazing.

- Loren

Today's FCP keytip:
Set a motion effect keyframe instantly with Control-K!

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Keying? With possibly moving branches and shadows? Not to mention brown leaves.. Sounds like a reshoot, that or rotoscoping. Whichever costs less.



www.strypesinpost.com

No way. Trees & bushes & sky with a bobbing & weaving subject? Rotoscoping is it, my friend...and it only "takes a decade" for someone not experienced in After Effects with Rotoscoping. You would be better off hiring an experienced Compositor than reshooting if you are pressed for time. I would reshoot if able - over well-lit greenscreen.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Very true, but he didn't mention *motion* background, now did he guys??? I've seen trees and bushes stand very still, depending on the weather.

Yeah, you're probably stuck doing frame-by-frame animated masking, or find some cool edge motion-tracking software.

You might look at Photoshop Extended (CS3 or CS4) to paint the background a solid green. Then you export it in the native codec and THEN try KeyLight!

Do a test on each of these methods. None of them will be perfect.

- Loren

Today's FCP keytip:
Set a motion effect keyframe instantly with Control-K!

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

* Motion * background has nothing to do with it. It's complex enough with trees / bushes / sky that keying in all probability is not an option. "The professor is a feisty little guy who bobs and weaves on the screen." Doesn't matter that the background is still...it's too busy for a key.

Definitely a Rotoscoping gig (frame-by-frame animated masking). It is the most controllable option.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

>It's complex enough with trees / bushes / sky that keying in all probability is not an option.

Although we're all guessing, and none of us have seen the footage yet... Heck, he could be standing in front of a smooth giant leaf. Basically you have bushes, that means you have shadows. And if you ever tried painting a plant, you know it's not just green. Rotoscoping/reshooting, whichever is cheaper.



www.strypesinpost.com

I guess reshooting would be the best choice if you're not really familiar with rotopaint and rotoscoping - too many keyframes are bad, too less are bad as well.
To get into that it definetively will take you way longer compared to reshooting.

Andreas

Some workflow tools for FCP [www.spherico.com]
TitleExchange -- juggle titles within FCS, FCPX and many other apps.
[www.spherico.com]

Just heard about this [www.noiseindustries.com] - specifically the PHYX keyer, which can do a difference key inside FCP.

"Diff Keyer: create mattes with any background. Green and blue screens not required."

Might be helpful?

Thanks for the input everyone.

I took Jude's suggested and I downloaded the FX PHYX DiffKeyer and admit I can't get it to work. That doesn't mean it doesn't. I also admit I don't know how to post an example, even a frame, of the problematic shot.I see others on the forum do it all the time, just post a link and that
link leads directly to the example. I'd be happy to know how that is done. Perhaps then the issue will become clearer.

Did you download and install the Noise Industries plug first? That's required to make the plug-ins work inside FCP.

As for screenshots, check this in the FAQ : Screenshots on the forum

hello Pricecom,

Quote
pricecom
I shot a professor against a tree with green leaves and green bushes, and some sky

I believe that we have recently been in contact through email. I will reply here as well.

It seems that you would like to isolate/matte the professor to change the background. PHYX Keyer does indeed include a plugin called DiffKeyer, which is able to suit this task pending its requirements.

DiffKeyer requires a piece of footage called a 'Clean Plate' to properly isolate/matte foreground elements. A suitable 'Clean Plate' (background isolated, without the professor in-frame) may have been accidentally shot before or after the professor delivers his interview. For a static shot, the 'Clean Plate' may be a still image.

Or, a 'Clean Plate' may be created in Photoshop in this case by extracting stills of when the professor moves to the right and left and reveals more of the background. You may be able to stitch-together a professor-free 'Clean Plate'.

Please see this page for more information:
[www.phyxware.com]


Please note that DiffKeyer requires that the 'Clean Plate' and 'Action Plate' be identical except for the objects you wish to isolate. Moving leaves/water/sand/clouds, etc. in the background may create undesired results.


Using DiffKeyer with a suitable 'Clean Plate' is relatively simple;

Drag your interview footage onto the timeline.
Apply DiffKeyer.
Drag your 'Clean Plate' into the 'Clean Plate' image well.

Viola !


If the camera pans/tilts, you must track the shot and create a 'Clean Plate' composition which follows the movement of the 'Action Plate'. Then use that composition as the 'Clean Plate' in DiffKeyer.



Please let us know if we may be of further assistance regarding PHYX Keyer.

Support may be reached through our contact form:
[www.phyxware.com]

By the time you figure this all out, you could have been done rotoscoping.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Maybe the interview is 10 hours long...



www.strypesinpost.com

What's interesting to me is that it's probably not important at all in the larger scheme - I mean, most people are interested in the content of interviews. They don't watch a doco and go, oh no, those trees aren't really the best background they could have had. They listen to the interview, and unless there is something pretty critically wrong with the background, they barely notice it.

But we get so tied up in this stuff that we spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars replacing that background. And it's not that I don't like to make good product, I really do. I just wonder about all of us sometimes...

> most people are interested in the content of interviews. They don't watch a doco and go, oh no,
> those trees aren't really the best background they could have had.

There's some truth in that, but the fact is, the wrong background does screw with the projected production value of the piece, especially if it is interview-heavy. I remember a PSA-style piece in the Show and Tell forum where an interview was done in a backyard with lots of trees...and it made no sense. Or, imagine an emotional interview about a dead child and it's done with a strip-club background. The last time I had this problem, the amateur cameraman shot a guy with a bright orange shirt, in HDV (super-saturated), where his background is a red-brick fireplace...and the subject was African-American. Made the poor guy look like an overcooked turkey.

Of course, it's always the director's fault if this isn't thought through, but the problem can be crippling, and not necessarily just a matter of "I don't like this shade of blue".


www.derekmok.com

I agree, if it's really bad. I'm really just waxing philosophical about how we get so caught up in details sometimes.

Isn't that slightly ironic that you are being pedantic about editors being pedantic?

Hehe

Michael Horton
-------------------

I guess if Jude's too busy scrutinizing the fine details of a mac monitor in the mods banner, she has a right to be pedantic.



www.strypesinpost.com

lol point to the place where I said I wasn't habitually ironic. Or pedantic.. I'm an editor, after all

I apologize if I made DiffKeyer seem overly complicated.


Ingredients:
-footage of professor
-same shot but without the professor in-frame (Clean Plate)

Preparation:
Load footage of professor.
Apply DiffKeyer.
Drag the Clean Plate into the image well.


Viola !
The professor is now matted and may be layered over any other background.

It doesn't sound overly complicated PHYX I was just spouting in general. I think it looks pretty cool actually.

Strypes,

It's a one hour doc and I am sure the entire thing is not a stand-up. Please read the original post.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

First, thanks for all the input and useful suggestions.
Secondly, if Joey has the inclination, I'd like to know if rotoscoping is available on either motion or FCP. I've never delved into that aspect of editing. And as someone pointed out purchasing good rotoscoping programs may cost more than a reshoot. Also rotoscoping at Joey's level ignores a new operator's abilities to master the learning curve. So far I've spent a few hours fiddling around with Phyx and it seems a wonderful program that may just not be suited to answer the needs of this specific problem.
Third, I've been in touch with Justin at Phyx. He has tried his best and has been very helpful, but so far I haven't succeeded in getting the "clean-plate" to winnow out the difference between the professor and the background. I've sent Justin a screenshot of the viewer with the Phyx settings, a jpeg of the "stitched" together background, clean left side when the prof leans right, and clean right when he leans left, as well as the output on the canvas and the timeline hoping that the fix is simple.
Lastly I've followed the wiki and here's a screenshot of the professor.
The link doesn't look as neat as the ones I usually see posted.

And as an aside, I agree with Derek that an interview background can sometimes be completely inappropriate. In this case the interview was conducted on the grounds of the university. The commissioning editor prefers something more dramatic, like beautifully lit deep focus in the profs library, or the Spackled black background popular with the History Channel.

Oh, just had another idea - just as slow as rotoscoping but maybe easier to manipulate for a beginner and you may already own it. Photoshop Extended has a function where you can paint frame by frame. You could black out a serious lot of this at a time with broad strokes, then work on the edgers at a slower pace.

The really bright stuff near the top of his head could be a problem in any case - looks like it might make it difficult to find the edge of his head and hair exactly, which often looks odd.

Yeah...no way to key that bkgd. As I said...too much going on. You can probably do it in Motion, but I never have. I use After Effects for rotoscoping as it's faster for me. It has a smooth Roto-Bezier tool. I would attack this with 2 masks...one for the body and one for the head and keframe each. Only problem with paint is every frame will be different and the edges will "wiggle" terribly...looks really bad. A Roto mask every 5 to 10 frames will be smooth.

Rotoscoping is not for beginners. It can be learned and done, but there is a lot of finessing involved. This is why it would be actually cheaper and faster to hire a specialist to rotoscope for you.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Ah true - the edges would wiggle if painted.