Need your feedback on this trailer. It's one minute long. Thanks for looking.

[www.releasing.net]

This trailer was created in G5 dual processors 2.7 kHz, 4 megs of ram, FCP5 Studio, Soundtrack Pro 2, Compressor 2. It's 3.3 MB, mpeg 4, h.264, 240 x 320, mono sound, 15 frame rate.

I need you to rate this trailer from the following perspective:

1) Will you buy a DVD of this movie after you see the trailer?

2) Does the trailer tell a story?

3) What do you like about this trailer?

4) What do you hate about it?

5) Does the music work?

6) What do you look for in a trailer?

7) Are the size, format and quality acceptable?

8) If you were a festival director would you invite this movie for participation?

9) How would you re-edit this trailer if you were given an assignment?

10) Your general reaction or any other comments. (No holds barred :-)

Thank you for your feedback.

1) no

2) sort of

3) as a whole? nothing.

4) audio is very bad.

5) I didn't notice

6) It should make me WANT to see the movie

7) acceptable for what?

8) not from this trailer

9) get an EXPERIENCED EDITOR / SOUND MIXER

10) reaction / comments:

* some of the cutting is non-sensical (ex: quick cut to funeral / slow dissolve to woman speaking / slow dissolve back to same shot?)
* the audio is way out of sync in places (doesn't match at all in places)
* audio cuts in & out with no transitions at all
* audio clicks / levels are up & down

This is a perfect example of just because a Director purchases FCP that it doesn't make the Director into an Editor. You need an Editor, Vic...period. Technically, the trailer is EXTREMELY rough. You need someone that is an EXPERIENCED EDITOR/ SOUND MIXER that can help you with a sense of timing / story telling. Experienced Editors can have great input to your scenes.

I still don't get it, bro...but that's just me.

- Joey



Post Edited (07-07-06 08:59)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Thanks, Joey. Technically how can I put up the elements of this trailer on my website so someone can download it and play around with it. Maybe it will be an interesting exercise for some editors on LAFCPUG to re-edit this trailer and I'll put up their versions on my website. I want to see what you're talking about. In theory there are many editors who can do a better job, but in practice a filmmaker working with no budget needs to finish his/her own movie and market it. That implies cutting one's own trailers. Of course, the feedback is great. I think this trailer is better than the last one I did. Thanks again for your comments.

1) Will you buy a DVD of this movie after you see the trailer?

No. It doesn't leave me hanging.

2) Does the trailer tell a story?

Not particularly. I want you to show me a story. To tease me, and lead me on. You gave me random cuts of dialogue.

3) What do you like about this trailer?

Nothing stands out.

4) What do you hate about it?

Needs color correction, film effects, and audio mixing. Should have shot more of it on a tripod. The acting is sub-par, but good acting is really, really hard to find, especially with an inexperienced director. (I have a hard time with this, also.)

5) Does the music work?

I didn't dislike it. I wanted to hear more nat sound. Let me hear the ocean when we get there, instead of just cutting to dialog with ocean background nats.

6) What do you look for in a trailer?

Something to hook me in.

7) Are the size, format and quality acceptable?

Yes, but I noticed lip flap in a couple of places. I can never tell if it's my internet connection, my machine, or the encoding.

8) If you were a festival director would you invite this movie for participation?

Probably not, it'd depend on the festival, the skill level, and the other entrants. If you're a college student, I'd say it'd get into a student film fest.

9) How would you re-edit this trailer if you were given an assignment?

It's hard to say, because I probably wouldn't use the same elements. Different sound. Leave me hanging. Force me to see the movie to find out what happens in the end.

10) Your general reaction or any other comments. (No holds barred :-)

A solid first effort on a film and a trailer. Probably a little premature to be asking for no-holds-barred comments on LAFCPUG.

1) Will you buy a DVD of this movie after you see the trailer?
absolutely not. not from the way that youve mentioned before that you plan on marketing it.

2) Does the trailer tell a story?
i think it tries to... but i think ive heard it before. im not really sure what the guy with the newspaper is doing and im not feeling the reason for the funeral.
i do see where the story is trying to go but the trailer doesnt get me there.
if it wasnt being presented by a member of this forum - i wouldnt have taken the mental effort to figure it out.

3) What do you like about this trailer?
the trailer - not much. i do think that there may be some eventual value in the story content, but again - if i didnt know you, i dont know that the trailer would compell me to investigate further... i do also think the blonde has a future in daytime soaps.

4) What do you hate about it?
looks really unprofessional. the way its put together is realy hacky, audio sync issues. music is meandering. and the end title is wayyy un-pro. the italics arent needed, font choice is "hobbiest" and the copyright makes it feel self-conscious

5) Does the music work? as a whole - no. there is no buildup or drama and there are several different areas where it doesnt speak to the mood of the scene.
there is nothing wrong with silence sometimes.

6) What do you look for in a trailer? i have to feel drawn to the story and be moved in just a few seconds to give a crap about the characters. this feels like a weak copy of the young and the restless

7) Are the size, format and quality acceptable?
dont know if that is really matters. it played, i could see it and hear it. so thats good. i dont like the way it was embedded in the page, the bottom of the controller fell under the playback window, which is a common symptom of newbie html/video integration. so if your intent is to seel the movie - start over

i also think that in todays market, a widescreen presentation is the way to go, IF you intend to sell the product.

8) If you were a festival director would you invite this movie for participation?
eeek! it would depend on the festival. a major one - NO WAY. a smaller regional - maybe,

9) How would you re-edit this trailer if you were given an assignment?
that would depend on what other footage i had. first, i dont get the significance of the funeral (im sure its significant, but the clips following it dont support that) and the two clips that bookend the lady giving the eulogy are almost identical. i would replace the second shot with a closeup of the person most effected by the death. there are places where the music doesnt support the imagery - like the streetwalker scene. the music needs to support the buildup of drama, this just lays there. and remember - sometimes slience is golden.

10) Your general reaction or any other comments. (No holds barred :-)
if this is a first ever feature or student effort, id say its a really great start! if not and you intend to sell it - good luck to you. overall it has a "hobbiest" feel to it. the sound design is weak. and the overall story has been done. i think you may however have a good angle on an old theme, but i dont think thats effectively conveyed in the trailer. i wouldnt be as critical, but ive been following your posts and have a general idea of what your intention is. and from that standpoint i think you need to rethink things from the ground up. from what you have here, youre bringing a spoon to a gunfight.

1) Will you buy a DVD of this movie after you see the trailer?

Definitely not.

2) Does the trailer tell a story?

More than the last pass, but it still feels generic -- "girl on wrong side of tracks" story.

What is *specific* about these characters? Any sharp lines, behaviours, surprising things, quirks, sense of humour? Right now the characters behave exactly as the script would seem -- they seem to be doing a cold reading.

3) What do you like about this trailer?

Some of the photography is good -- the beach walk, for example. But the shots chosen for a lot of the dramatic material looks like student-film stuff, unspecific and flat.

4) What do you hate about it?

I see the biggest problem now. Acting. The acting is horrible. It's going to rip your character sympathy to shreds, and makes the film look and sound utterly amateurish. No amount of photography or editing will save that.

5) Does the music work?

If you're going for melodrama, yes. But married to the completely inept acting, it looks like a parody of tearjerkers.

6) What do you look for in a trailer?

Engagement. Entertainment. Clear tone. What's unique about the film.

7) Are the size, format and quality acceptable?

I think you should go back to a higher frame rate. It looks choppy as hell, and only serves to highlight the sync problems.

This thing's only 1:15. You should aim for 10MB, at full 29.97fps, up the data rate to 800-1200kbps.

8) If you were a festival director would you invite this movie for participation?

No. It looks like a hundred other "DIY" independent films. Some of the shots look like really good DV, instead of 35mm.

9) How would you re-edit this trailer if you were given an assignment?

That's a tough one. After seeing your first pass, I would have felt like I could do better. But now I see the problems you have aren't fixable in editing, unless you have much, much better acting takes hidden somewhere in your takes. However, if I remember your approach correctly, you'd shot the film MOS and done all the dialogue as ADR. That may be at least one reason why your acting is so stilted, almost like Italian horror films from the '70s.

10) Your general reaction or any other comments. (No holds barred :-)

First, kill the title. It sounds like some Deepa Mehta, New Age b.s., or a Charlie Chan parody. For a self-help book, it's okay; for a film, it's marketing suicide. Unless you *are* trying to market a self-help or Scientology video.

I think you need to ditch the dialogue, which at this point is what I'd consider the weakest part. The sync is completely off, so it sounds like the French/Spanish dubbed dialogue tracks from a DVD.

Sit down and write a script for the trailer. Don't approach it like a chronological distillation of the plot. Instead, write it like a commercial based on what you know, what is marketable about the film. The photography is pretty good, and there's visual variety. So, for example:

Cross cut: Funeral. Streetwalking. Funeral. Drinking. Funeral. The prostitute with a customer. Break the pattern, cut to her with the guy she loves. Now find out she's pregnant.

Do a stream-of-consciousness monologue where we get to hear her voice, express herself in a more interesting way than the dialogue.

And FOCUS on one character. I see a blonde, a dark-haired woman, a dark-haired guy, an older guy, but I have no freakin' idea how they relate, what their names are, or even which character is which. 99 per cent of all good scripts can be distilled into being "someone's story". A good trailer almost always does that, settle on one protagonist as the anchor to the whole experience. Even when the trailer introduces other interesting characters, it almost always puts in a little reaction from the main character so we don't get lost.

I might also rethink the music. This music is better than the last track, but it gives the whole film away. Try a score that withholds something, adds an element of mystery, of emotional ambiguity. Say, a piano that's more like Road to Perdition, or The Piano.

Don't put ©2006 at the end. It looks dumb. If you're serious about making the film look more professional, study some trailers and look at how they end. You can have a partial crew list, but do the layout properly. For a film of this size, I'd probably recommend only putting up the title. And ditch the writer's name -- nobody knows who she is. I Googled her and found out she's some linguistics professor in the Republic of Georgia...which immediately made me suspect her screenwriting. Why expose your weaknesses?

>>> I want to see what you're talking about. <<<

Yikes, Vic...you can't see what I am talking about? You can't see all the technical glitches & timing issues in your trailer? Also as derek pointed out, the Acting is abysmal but the technical issues are so bad that I haven't even reached critiquing the performances.

>>> In theory there are many editors who can do a better job, but in practice a filmmaker working with no budget needs to finish his/her own movie and market it. <<<

It's not a theory, Vic. It is a fact. Just the follow up statements you make demonstrate that you need to step outside the Post Production process and let someone with experience help you.

And "in practice", filmmakers since filmmaking began working with no budget have had no problems whatsoever enlisting the collaboration of an experienced Editor to work Pro-Bono for a film credit & a copy of the film...just as long as the STORY / FOOTAGE IS GOOD. I do at least 2 Pro-Bono jobs a year for the old Demo Reel...but the STORY / PROJECT has to have a great HOOK.

Like I said in past postings...editing Trailers is an ART (it's a mini-film). People think a trailer is such an easy thing to cut...it's not. It has to SELL the movie and GRAB the person watching it and MAKE THEM WANT to see the film. It is telling the story without revealing too much. And why does there have to be wall-to-wall footage in the trailer? You may want to look into a predominately GRAPHIC trailer with interspersed clips and a VO.



Post Edited (07-07-06 10:12)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> Technically how can I put up the elements of this trailer on my website so
> someone can download it and play around with it.

That will be a futile exercise. First of all, any raw footage you'll be able to put up on the internet will be at extremely low quality. Second, in order to come up with a good trailer, the editor needs to see the whole film, have his/her own concepts, talk to the director (while watching the film), and access to at least the entire film and more, including unused takes. Do you have any idea how much media we're talking about here? As much as it takes for a 90-to-120-minute film. It ain't peanuts.

And then there's the fact that most of us are working editors. We don't have oodles of time to put in free editing work for no money, no credit, on a project that we're not familiar with.

It's impractical. You should just ask a favour of a professional editor to spend a day or half-day with you with your film plus all your raw footage accessible.

Joe is right, trailer editing is an art in itself. Even a good narrative-film editor may not be able to cut in the trailer style. They are two related but different languages.

vic, as i said earlier. ive been reading your various posts for a while and i think youre trying to bite off more than youre ready to chew.

youre not going to bypass the "hollywood machine" on the road to fame and fortune by selling your movie online without a really good content angle and one hell of a charismatic / viral marketing approach. here you really have neither...

the questions youve been asking about putting source clips online and selling your movie yourself online via your website, demonstrate that you dont have a real good handle on the fundamental technologies and approaches required to pull these things off.

selling movies online and putting source clips online require a ridiculous (possibly unrealistic) ammount of bandwidth (both up and down which is a rare combination) and a good command of backend technology. there is a reason that more people dont do this and thats because its just not largely cost effective from market/technology/knowledge standpoint.

i think you need to slow down, rethink things and find out what your strengths and weaknesses are. otherwise i think youre set on a path frought with dissapointment and financial perrill.

im sorry that most feedback here today has sounded largely negative, but i think most if not all has been in the spirit of experienced advice rather than just subjective criticism.

Every Village or Town has one storyteller that can spin yarns and hold people's attention. The rest of the town thinks they can do as well, but it's only one that can generate and hold an audience.

Hollywood is a place that has a much higher concentration of both.

The trick is to find the real one.

Our 600 (average) person company has one person who can read the phone book and generate an audience. They have this touch. We have 599 (average) other people who are all shooting unwatchable movies.

We in Technincal Services are perfectly willing to loan you a camera if you want to try.

Koz

1) Will you buy a DVD of this movie after you see the trailer?
no.

2) Does the trailer tell a story?
If it does im struggling to follow it

3) What do you like about this trailer?
Im afraid im struggling again.

4) What do you hate about it?
Hate is a bit extreme, but i find it badly paced with little narrative.

5) Does the music work?
If what narrative im getting from the trailer is correct then yeah it feels suitable

6) What do you look for in a trailer?
Something that will capture my attention and leave me wanting more - thats all nothing more and nothing less.

7) Are the size, format and quality acceptable?
Personally if im viewing any form of video content on the web i want to see it about twice that size, that small it just isn't worth it.

8) If you were a festival director would you invite this movie for participation?
No afraid not.

9) How would you re-edit this trailer if you were given an assignment?
Not sure where to start, its all about the story. Your trying to give the viewer a sample of a story and invite them to learn more. as others have said i think there are bigger problems in the whole rather than just the trailer.

I hate no holds barred...because people can be (and have been) brutal. Truthful but brutal...and that can hurt. Having met you I know you aren't a "young spud" making his first film, so you might be a bit hardened to the criticism.

ANYWAY...I agree that the director should not edit. Only in rare occurances does that combo work (Robert Rodriguez...notice he is the only successful one).

1) Will you buy a DVD of this movie after you see the trailer?
Nope. Sorry.

2) Does the trailer tell a story?
Not really...but should it? Trailers are tricky, for they have to hint at the story, show the conflict that is happening and make the audience want to see the whoel story and the resolution. I just don't...again, sorry.

3) What do you like about this trailer?
Can't think of a thing. OH...it is Quicktime...That is a big plus.

4) What do you hate about it?
Hate is too powerful a word. I disliked the audio issues...yes, it is way out of sync in places. The Music...oh, that is below. It seemed very amateurish, and I don't like using that word. But it seems like it was just thrown together by someone who just started editing yesterday. And I know you have been around for longer than that.

5) Does the music work?
No. It doesn't really fit the story, nor change to reflect any story change.

6) What do you look for in a trailer?
Something to make my want to watch the movie to find the ending. Tease me. I need to be drawn in.

7) Are the size, format and quality acceptable?
Acceptable for web viewing, yes.

8) If you were a festival director would you invite this movie for participation?
No. Sorry.

9) How would you re-edit this trailer if you were given an assignment?
I'd have to look at all the footage and the movie as it was assembled before i could make that assesment.

10) Your general reaction or any other comments. (No holds barred :-)

Find someone to edit for you. Please. Give them the footage and just let them do what they will. See what they have done and make comments. Editors are a collaborative partner that brings a vision to the table...that is why this is a collaborative art.

And there is not much you can do about the acting, which I have to agree is not the best. But good actors are hard to find.

<<<Yes, but I noticed lip flap in a couple of places.>>>

It's not you. Some of the sound sync isn't too good.

<<<I see a blonde, a dark-haired woman, a dark-haired guy, an older guy, but I have no freakin' idea how they relate, what their names are, or even which character>>>

I couldn't follow all of it either. I watched it a number of times and I still can't figure out why some of the shots were there.

Keep cutting until your mom is in tears at the end.

Here's an exercise. Cut it again so the lead character is in each shot. No exceptions. No cutaways, no support ensembles, no billboards for the wrong people. If you can't do that, then the main movie may be in trouble.

If you can pull that off, then loosen it up a little for cutaways.

Download the "Pirates of the Caribbean" trailer. Jack Sparrow is in very nearly every other shot.

Koz

wayne granzin wrote:


>
> selling movies online and putting source clips online require a
> ridiculous (possibly unrealistic) ammount of bandwidth (both up
> and down which is a rare combination) and a good command of
> backend technology. there is a reason that more people dont do
> this and thats because its just not largely cost effective from
> market/technology/knowledge standpoint.

Actually it doesn't cost much of anything to put your movies online. At least in terms of bandwidth. Bittorent technology solves that problem. Or sell your movie (DVD) on one of a gazillion sites that do it for you. Indieflix has the best model in my not so humble opinion.

[indieflix.com]

It's clear you worked hard on creating this film......and many of the comments above are brutal.....but the bottom line is you have to make us want to see your movie.

Go look at the trailers for Superman - Devil Wears Prada - even something simpler - The Lake House -- what about each of those trailers makes you want to grab a fist full of dollars and throw them at the box office and buy 4000 percent marked up popcorn to munch while you watch?

The problem may not be your trailer but your film. Have you cut out the fat - tightened the narrative? Made the character arcs clear? If not - the trailer's not going to help. What in two sentences or less is your story about?

An old writing professor told his class -- if you can't clearly tell me the story in a few sentences and make me want to hear more...you can't possibly write, shoot or edit it.

Good luck -- Andy



Post Edited (07-07-06 13:27)

Joey, thanks for pointing out all the technical mistakes. you're right, I can't be considered a FCP editor yet. And I don't make a living as a trailer editor.

Mike W. -- thank you for suggesting film effects. Maybe I can find some way to do that. As for the acting -- it's all I can afford.

Wayne, thanks for the comments. You've put in enough time into analyzing it that I can do something with each of the areas. At least you liked the actress playing the streetwalker to some extent.

Derek, thanks as always. Your analysis always amazes me. As critical as you get, you always make concrete suggestions as to what would work. There's not much I can do about the acting at this point, but I can redo the music or maybe find someone who will let me use their music. I will up res the quality as you suggested. The title is history -- I always hated it, but I didn't know what it was -- self-help -- exactly. I was thinking of writing a trailer script and starting fresh -- with no dialogue. That was my gut feeling the first trailer I did had no dialogue -- if you remember. Now you know why. I like the stream of consciousness approach (I tend to be a bit delusional as Frank suggested in another post :-) so a little James Joyce might work wonders for me here. I like the cross cutting technique you suggested -- that rings true. I'm trying to figure out whose narrative to follow -- doing one character's story sounds good.

Aside from all that, should a trailer be an honest representation of a movie's story? LOL

Koz, are you offering me use of a camera? My camera is in the shop right now :-) I'm going to follow up on that exercise -- cutting with one actor in every shot.

Josh, it was nice of you to suggest a better story angle. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

And, Shane, you're always a class act. It was a pleasure meeting you at the LAFCPUG meet. Thanks for offering an alternative perspective. I've read your comments carefully -- as I do with all the comments on this forum.

To everyone, thank you and I know you guys are better editors -- you have years of experience in NLE and I suspect some of you are brilliant and accomplished editors. I'm just starting out in FCP. I need to learn this style of editing. I'm an all around filmmaker. I started out that way at San Francisco State in 1968 and I'm going to my grave that way :-) It's too late now to switch gears -- I'm flying in high gear and my brakes are gone. LOL If you like, I'll give you a shot at editing a trailer for me for credit and copy... It ain't much, I know, but you've definitely warmed my heart and earned my respect about your sense of integrity, pride in your craft and desire to help out.

You're missing the point again, Vic. It's not a "Final Cut Pro Style Of Editing" that is your issue...it's EDITING...just editing. It's not all about the "Technical Mistakes" I am pointing out... it's asking for and accepting help, because you need it. The computer program has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. It's shot selection & making choices.

The reason an experienced Editor is so valuable is that he / she has got a FIRM GRASP on the technology which allow for freeflowing creativity to be poured into the STORY and in the CHOICES. No worries like "where's the Ripple Delete button" or "why won't this $@&#! thing capture???"...just creative work on the STORY. Trying to cut a film while learning a NLE from a manual or tutorials is beyond insane... it will detract from your (or any) project.



Post Edited (07-07-06 15:05)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Great work!

This is the best parody of a horribly done bad film I've seen. In one short bit you provide a textbook showcase of terrible sound, stiff directing wooden acting and a meaningless plot.

I'll leave out the lighting, and the lensing, which gave me the giggles.

It must have been hysterical to edit.

I also congratulate you for managing to put the whole promo together and not have a single transition in the whole thing that makes any sense. Every single edit is so badly miss timed, you succeed in making this a wonderful hash of drivel. Brilliant.

The bold decision making here is just precious. Using a badly lit guy reading want ads for the first shot - which should be one of your very strongest - is great. Especialy as we never learn why.

Then we glimpse a funeral and are told in the next shot it was lots of fun - but we are not shown what is happening in the jet black 60 % of the badly framed shot over the top of the subjects heads. I have a quibble here - You might want to try neon green for the over cc color of choice here - instead of the red color - just because you can do it. Someone might figure a logical reason for them looking like Carrie after they dump the blood. Since you worked so hard to avoid anything else that makes a shred of sense - I suggest you correct that.


The tour de force of terrible continues. We then cut to a profile of a woman who does a quick turn to camera take a drink. At least I understand this one. She has to look into the lens to see the cue to drink! Since that's the only reason for the action - I suggest you add mirror shades so we can see the reflection of the crew in them.

We then cut to a disembodied voice shouting to two guys calling them Liz! Brilliant! Especially when it turns out we were talking to the breasts of a passer by.

Finally we get the first clue what this is all about . . . we are helping someone get 300$ for sex on the beach. But instead of showing us someting worthwhile - like a naked breast - you change the subject again.

Evidently Money is a character because someone is marrying him, and being given him, but we never see him. This sets up a strong current of mystery - because by now - only Sherlock Holmes could figure out what the hell the film is about.

The ending shot left me rofl. That poor actor was chewing the rug so hard I'm amazed there was anything left to walk on. I've seen calmer stuff in Monty Python skits. Boy howdy you folks worked hard on that I can tell.

Could you please include a still of the tree trunk or club you used to edit with? Also - this is the first promo I've listened to that was mixed by a deaf person. Make sure you give full credit for that neat trick.

Ian

LOL...and I was holding back! Ian!!! ROTFLMAO...nailed it completely.



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Enough said everyone. This is not the Avid-L. It's a FCP troubleshooting forum.

And a reminder to everyone, especially to those of you who are just starting out. Don't ask for feedback on your movie/short/trailer/etc. on a public troubleshooting forum Rather, take it a step at a time. Talk to someone you trust and you know to be honest. Then take his/her opinion and go back to the project. Then ask another. Then ask another. When you are absolutely confident that you have something you want to share and get the worlds opinion on, then go ahead and post your link....to trigger St. dot com, or someplace else that deals with and nurtures independent movies and thought.

This is the wrong forum to get feedback on your trailer despite our "expertise."

Anyone that was thinking of sharing his work is now in shock (shell schock), I would almost be afraid to give it a compliment. LOL

Mike H. has a point...a successful short film I'd cut for a friend in film school was nearing picture lock when the director showed it to a screenwriting instructor. The guy told her to reshoot the whole film, and to refrain from showing it at our school's festival. She called me up in tears and I had to remind her that the film got my green light as well as our editing instructor's.

Two weeks later, the film got into the Chrysler Million Dollar Festival as one of 10 semi-finalists, and ended up winning at Woodstock as well as getting an agent for the director.

She and I still look back on the comment and laugh.

i actually think that this critique was very realistic and very (aside from a post here and there) diplomatic. anyone who asks for a direct critique has to be ready for the good and the bad.

and it seems that vic has taken it all in stride and knows that nobody was out to bust his chops simply for sport

we have to remember that the P in LAFCP stand for PRO, and there may be a higher level of expectation here than in a triggerstreet, or creative cow or other general interest forum.

i dissagree with michael and i say we should all post clips now and again to learn from others who may have a more experienced viewpoint. its always good to get input from people that you "know" and maybe respect. good or bad and though some of us tend to get snippy from time to time there is a general rapport here in the forum that i think does lead to better work, through advice or even via harsh critiques...

Technical note.

When I viewed your movie on your web page, the controller was cropped out at the bottom.

Your QT movie is 320 x 240. I checked the source code for your .html page and you show the 'Height' of the QT movie as 240 pixels. In the code you have "controller = true" which means that you want the controller to be displayed. In order for this to happen, you need to add 24 pixels to the height measurement, so that the controller can be displayed. 240 + 24 = 264

--ken

Mike,

Oye...Avid-L was a nightmare...but when you post a piece of work and you ask for "Your general reaction or any other comments - No holds barred", chances are you are gonna get it. It's just the wrong place.

There is a TON of "fluff" & "OT" stuff scattered throughout the Cafe that is totally unrelated to Tech Support & Troubleshooting FCP and shouldn't be here, so why is this any different? If you are suggesting this be relocated to an appropriate forum, why not CREATE ONE here? What do you think about starting a "General Discussion" forum where folks can ask non-Tech Support related questions about editing techniques / tips & tricks / post work for critique / talk about inspirational films & spots / etc?

You have to see the benefit in that, Mike. Your Mods can simply move "OT / fluff" over to the "General Discussion" forum and leave the Tech Support to the Tech Supporters

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

"and though some of us tend to get snippy from time to time "
Hey - I resemble that!

Joey -
This list is supposed to be a "safe zone" for all. The flames from the Avid-L used to keep my house warm.

I think Mike was spanking me gently. My post kicked things a bit too far. I hadn't refereshed the page between viewing and writing up my post and posting it - and a lot of other stern crit snuck in there. . . . and the cume is a little beyond what one human should be expected to endure happily.

Mike is right about this forum being more technical - there IS a good bit of valuable and useful info in every post regarding ways to improve the work. THAT is the goal. I don't think we need more forums or to worry about OT stuff. As long as it's labeled - the mix feels about right.

I should have added to my original post -
1) I am impressed by your seriousness and by your obvious care for the finished product.

2) Do not take our stern critiques as an indictment of the whole process or of you. It's only the dumbest kind of dumbest fool that ain't king in some little corner. While I think you need more focus on the who what where and how in the story - I believe we can all tell that this work will have something to say to it's core audience.

So - pry between my sarcasm and find a few serious suggestions on re-cutting the promo.

And - honestly - now that we're this far - I AM interested in seeing the next version.

Ian

Mike, I think criticism like this is very valuable. It's what distributors tell independent filmmakers all the time. It's a brutal business. But then it's a great art form -- filmmaking that is. Without the arena to expose one's work, it's very hard to get a movie out into the market place, let alone theaters. Out of a thousand films made by filmmakers in Hollywood how many end up on the theatrical screen? How many end up in DVD rental stores like Blockbuster? ... Besides you gave me the best piece of information: [indieflix.com] !!!

Ken, I really appreciate the technical note! I couldn't figure out what happened to the lower part of the plugin. Okay, I'll add 24 pixels.

Ian, you have a gift for satire. I love satire ... in film especially. I'm not a glutton for punishment or anything, but I enjoy reading those film critiques that are the most brutal best of all. Besides, you gave Joey a great big laugh. It's great to have people like Joey around; they're the life of the party.

Thank you, Andy, I did a search for trailers and looked at the Lake House trailer. I was amazed by the quality of the image. ... It was slow and moody. I kind of liked that aspect. I'd like to do a similar trailer for my movie. Of course, as has been pointed out I need to have a better ending credit and music. I also looked at the Spyderman trailer -- very slick and typical of the genre -- graphics flipping around, short scenes barely visible with a lot of black fade ins and fade outs keeping the potential audience in awe of what they might see -- the sound track going continuous under the blackness giving the audience a hint of what they will see if they go to the theater and buy the ten dollar popcorn and snacks LOL. ... Andy, I'll never go to see those movies, but of course that's how trailers are cut these days. I hate horror films and slick movies. That's why I make my personal movies. I've edited a few martial arts movies, with fast action cutting. I've edited war pictures and I've done a lot of fancy editing. Of course, I've had twenty to forty film crew members on those pictures. I've also DP'ed pictures that sold in the foreign market -- all B-Movies. I never wanted to join a union. It's not my style. It's perfectly okay for other technicians to join unions. I have nothing against people joining unions. There are some benefits...

And, Derek, I agree with Wayne, the criticism was mostly diplomatic. Your criticism is the harshest, but the great thing is that it's also the most helpful. I love your story about the short film. I haven't won any awards for films so far, and I'm sure the film I've posted this trailer for isn't going to win any either; but I knew that going in. I made it for a different reason. I needed to get back to production after ten years of doing practically nothing. I've had features that I've edited go theatrical and one of them had a record run in Europe in the early 70s. Most of the features I've edited have been B-Movies though, and I knew going in that they weren't going to be nominated for any Oscars. Editing feature films, such as dramas, is a pretty straight forward procedure. Most of the time, the screenplay writer and the director have done most of the work. The editor pieces together the scenes in the order of the screenplay and the movie for the most part is done. Of course, there are technical matters, like smoothing out the sound between scenes and removing noise from the sound track, supervising the mix, editing the music, and so on. Movies shot with full crews have very few errors, as you've correctly pointed out most of the errors like mine can be avoided by choosing a good crew. My style of filmmaking -- solo -- is another ball of wax. I'm learning, and as I may have said in other posts I'm going back to this style of filmmaking at the end of my career because it's how I started out ... and nobody gave me a chance to direct a studio picture anyway -- not that I tried for it. I've had a modicum of success as a guerrilla filmmaker, but I'm not here to brag about that. I want to learn FCP and some of the tricks that take years to learn -- if one is not willing to take some licks :-) This forum is the best crash course in FCP I've seen anywhere.

I'll keep looking forward to your criticism in my future posts.

Hi Vic,

Long, long ago, while I was studying Film/TV/Radio production at Long Beach State (The same general time and place Mr. Speilberg studied) I briefly considered getting into Film Directing. After making a really bad student film, I quickly rejected the entire idea, and took other directions in the industry. The reason? It seemed just to hard to get a decent product.

A few years later I ended up directing a few corporate productions and decided I never wanted to do that again. The reason? It was just too hard to get a decent product. Part of my problem is that I like to do things myself - I'm not very good at allowing other people take over portions of my product - or to hijack my "vision".

You have reason to be quite proud here. You have actually produced a movie, and a trailer. Never mind whether its any good - you have overcome obstacles that many others wouldn't even consider assaulting.

You've shown you have guts and determinination - and you've put it here for us to assail.

Now, of course, you realize that you need to somehow make your trailer make the movie appear worthwhile to an audience. How do you do that? heck, I don't know, that's why I don't produce trailers.

However, here's a few things you might consider.

(1) I don't know if your movie stinks, but if it does, you'll need t fix that - otherwise your trailer, which is an advertisement for the move, will be false advertising. If festival judges expect a good move from the trailer, you'll be absolutely slammed by the judges. You'd be better off if they were expecting a bad film, and were pleasantly surprised.

(2) From the trailer, it appears that your script needs some help. I felt like you were trying to force me to buy into a story that doesn't make any sense on an emotional level. (Again, I don't know how you do that, but there are people out there that do.)

(3) Of course it's a bit late to consider re-shooting, but you might actually have something here to present to someone who might finance a re-production. You may even be able to use the fact that you have completed a production to demonstrate to someone that you're ready to "do it right this time".

(4) It might help to become the "Director" instead of the producer, camera guy, writer, acting coach, editor, gaffer, etc. - and find people who can fill those positions for you. I don't know for sure that you did that on your film, but it looks like it. Making a movie is too hard to do all these things yourself. (If you ask me, it's too hard to do just one of those things yourself.)

(6) No matter what happens on this one, keep going. You've done far more than most beginning filmmakers. Remember, we learn much more from our failures than our successes.



Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

<<<Koz, are you offering me use of a camera? My camera is in the shop right now :-) >>>

Do you work here? I don't see your on the phone list.

<<<I'm going to follow up on that exercise -- cutting with one actor in every shot.>>>

The Lead Character in every shot. I was a good two thirds of the way through the trailer before I figured out who she was. It is the blond lady, right? She turns out to be the murderer?


Do you know what the "Director's Cut" of a movie is? That's where the director brutally compress a 93 minute movie into four and a half hours.

Koz

> You'd be better off if they were expecting a bad film, and were pleasantly
> surprised.

I'd question the wisdom of that suggestion, Travis. Make a viewer expect a weak or amateur film, and s/he will assume the worst about everything s/he sees. Make a cut with conviction, and the viewer will be coaxed into accepting your decision. That's why if the first 90 seconds of a short film or the first eight minutes of a feature don't grab a viewer, you will most likely never get that viewer, period.

However, I agree with your assessment that the solution may not be in the trailer; it may be in the film that is its source.

> Do you know what the "Director's Cut" of a movie is? That's where the director
> brutally compress a 93 minute movie into four and a half hours.

My late editing mentor Evan Lottman (The Exorcist) also disliked that idea, when the "expanded edition" of The Exorcist came out. James Cameron put a lot of fat back into the Director's Cut of The Abyss.

The two films I can think of where I liked the "Director's Cut" better were Almost Famous and Dawn of the Dead.