DVCPro HD - Long Play comparable to Standard Play?

We're about to start production on a game show, which will air on one of the Discovery networks. In order to save money on tape stock, one of the technical managers at the stage recommended to us that we use the Long Play setting on our 1200A. He said that there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between LP and SP modes. The plan is to record our Line Cut in both LP and SP (using two decks) for the first day's episodes, so we don't lose a whole day's work by committing to LP.

I suppose my question is this: even if we don't notice a significant difference between the two speeds, can you imagine any glitches that may arise, which could Discovery's QC to kick the show back?

I don't have enough experience with DVCPro HD to know which way this could go.

There isn't any difference in terms of quality, just that one allows you a longer recording time with the increased risk of dropouts.



www.strypesinpost.com

The difference between SP and LP on tape is that in the latter the tape moves slower past the heads squeezing more data onto each inch of tape, increasing the maximum recording time.

This increases the chance of more serious, longer lasting errors if the tape gets damaged in some way.

It does not however decrease the quality of the image or sound. As this is recorded in the same format.

Like I say about RAID arrays and Backup solutions: "it depends on how well you want to manage your paranoia!".

If you are making an SP and LP copy then I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be fine. Personally though I would never use LP mode unless I had no other choice.



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Luckily we'll be recording the 6 isos as well, so if there's an issue with the Line Cut, we'll have the iso to go back to. If we start getting too many dropouts after the first couple days, we'll just have to bite the bullet and buy more stock.

Thanks guys!

Oh well if you are doing that then definitely save some money and save plastic!

In future you could of course look at getting a capture card or external box from AJA or Matrox connected to a laptop and take the SDI feed and capture either DVCproHD or ProRes directly to disk.

Another alternative is to use a couple of AJA KiPro's for staggered direct-to-disk ProRes recording.

I've seen many dropouts over the years but as long as you have clean heads and good quality tape you should be fine.



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Quite frankly, I've never worked on a professional shoot where LP mode is recommended. I've been trained to avoid that like the plague. So I'm going to argue against Ben here and say, it's not worth it. Also, there have been reported issues about how some LP-mode DV tapes won't play properly except on the camera that had shot it. Not sure how DVCPro HD tapes fare, but the risk is far too large and the payoff too small.

I had a show once where they ignored my warnings and kept shooting with a B Camera that produced stutters and dropouts. Savings were possibly in the hundreds; post-production costs to fix the image problems ran easily into the thousands, not to mention the time lost in post, plus the bad-looking edits.


www.derekmok.com

Oooh our first marital spat! Honeymoon's over kids!

D man: the LP version is a COPY of the edited (vision mixed) show which will be on SP and the separate tapes from each camera are available in SP!

Sorry Derek that's just overkill...

If it had been the MASTER tape in LP with no other backup in SP then "absolutely no-way", "never", "nononono!", do not use LP.



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Do the dishes, Ben!

Yeah, I saw that they were going to have an SP version. But if they were going to do a backup, I still think it's imperative that the two copies should be identical.

I would also suggest that if you record one tape in SP, it can be reused. If you record a tape in LP mode, that's it -- it can't really be trusted to be used for any other future purpose. So I would suggest that recording in SP mode means that the backup copy tape stock is not a real cost, just a temporary one. You'd have to shoot me first before I would reuse a tape that's been recorded in LP mode at some point in its lifespan.

I stand by my principle...the benefit is too low, the potential penalty is too high. Not worth it.


www.derekmok.com

Fair point - but I think its overkill on pro-decks - although I have encountered LP DV on consumer and prosumer decks and it is a terrible and unrecoverable thing.

As long as the grade of tape is excellent and not recycled you should be fine - I know people shooting DVCAM or HDV on cheap DV tape and they often get dropout.

DVCproHD using DVCproHD tape stock has been very reliable in my experience and I've never encountered a drop out (that I've spotted).

However, no-one is really using DVCproHD tape anymore in my general work-circle so I guess I won't be be able to test that as well as I have with DV.


Oh and I actually just did the dishes!



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