trembling clip after rendering a slow motion

hi,

my DV timeline editing is going fine, but I'm having trouble with some clips after changing speed either 25 or 50%.
while they're with the green line play all right, but when I render they tremble!!!!!

does anybody know the reason of that?

FCP 6.0
MACOS X 10.6
PROC 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

thanks a lot

Sounds like you may have an issue with bad fields. Does it happen when you do a speed change to other speeds? Are you monitoring on a broadcast monitor? What format are you working with (both source footage and sequence settings).



www.strypesinpost.com

hi stripes, thanks a lot, I was away so only could answer now!



the trembling effect was solved when I put the field dominance to none! great as you said could be a field issue!

but now I discovered a new thing!!!!!! ups!!!!!:

the footage was in DV, as I have a capture problem in FCP I had to do it in Imovie wich doesn't let me choose any format and then import from FCP.
There, Seq settings as DV NSTC custom setup.

But the sequence settings was wrong! it was in HD 1440 x 1080 16:9 1080i60. So I tried to change it to DV with the result of squeezed deformed resized and cut image!

So I keep editing in HD but I have the doubt that could give me future problems?


Please give me a clue if you know as I'm lost!

>the trembling effect was solved when I put the field dominance to none!

Cripes. You need to monitor it on a proper monitor.


>So I tried to change it to DV with the result of squeezed deformed resized and cut image!

Firstly, you need to solve the capture issue in FCP. Without seeing your set up, I don't know what is going on. Capturing in another software/NLE is definitely not a solution, especially if you are not familiar with video systems. Quicktime is able to capture DV. So I would attempt to capture it there, but only as a last ditch measure.

Can you start from the top, and tell us exactly what format you shot to, what is your capture settings, and how did you set up FCP?



www.strypesinpost.com

This is what happens when you change settings midway through. That's why it's best to get your settings right before you edit anything.

Let's clear up some terminology first.

> There, Seq settings as DV NSTC [sic] custom setup.

You most likely did not change Sequence Settings. You changed Sequence Presets, possibly via Easy Setup. This is not the same thing as Sequence Settings.

Sequence Presets (under Audio/Video Settings) determines the default settings of Sequences created after the preference is set. It does not affect Sequences which already exist.

Sequence Settings (APPLE-0) determines the settings of the Sequence you have open or selected. This is the one you needed to change, which you did subsequently:

> But the sequence settings was wrong! it was in HD 1440 x 1080 16:9 1080i60. So I tried to change
> it to DV with the result of squeezed deformed resized and cut image!

What probably happened is that you edited your DV-sized media (720x480, 3:2) in an HDV Sequence (1440x1080, 16:9). When you did that, FCP automatically resized your DV frame to fit an HD frame, and applied a Distort value to attempt to make the 3:2 frame fit the 16:9 wide frame.

When you changed your Sequence Settings back to DV, it's like you took the contents of a large picture frame and stuffed it into a smaller, differently proportioned picture frame. But the Distort and Scale settings applied by FCP remain. So now you have clips that were supposed to be 720x480, but have been blown up to around 200 per cent, and now are being watched in a 720x480 in a very zoomed, degraded form.

I assume your Sequence Settings are now correctly set to DV (check by pressing APPLE-0). Select these clips and press OPTION-APPLE-V (Remove Attributes). Check Distort and Motion. That should get rid of the resizing. But yeah, next time, you should locate the problem before you start editing as per strypes' recommendation, instead of starting work before your settings are correct. And Capturing in another software is a last resort and tends to create more problems than it solves. When you had begun to edit your 720x480 clips in a 1440x1080 Sequence, you should have noticed that everything was being blown up and was looking soft and distorted.

Oh yeah, and you've probably also located the true cause of your original slow-mo problem. You were editing in an HDV timeline. HDV's field dominance is Upper. DV NTSC's field dominance is Lower. What I don't get is that the field problem should have been visible on all clips, not just ones with speed change applied. Chances are you just didn't notice, but the problem was exacerbated on slow-mo clips.

Now you need to check your clips again in the Viewer by looking at the Filter tab. If you've been editing DV clips in an HDV Sequence, FCP may have added a Shift Fields filter to the clips that you don't need anymore with corrected Sequence Settings.


www.derekmok.com

>What I don't get is that the field problem should have been visible on all clips

Well, you don't notice field issues in a computer monitor. You may notice it when you do a speed ramp, and FCP will map out the fields incorrectly.



www.strypesinpost.com

thanks to you strypes and derek of for being so quick!

what a mess then!

before I answer carefully all the steps you're asking me let me just be sure that I have to renounce on editing with this settings!
means I have to open a new sequence, set it properly and copy paste my hd timeline?

I think both of you follow my topic on the log & capture FCP issue. unfurtonately didn't solve till now!:
[www.lafcpug.org]

As I had problems capturing HD with Quicktime, thats why used Imovie. Probably that wasn't a good start, but didn't see other way!

As I don't have another monitor I must make it with it!!!!!!!


thanks much!!!!!!

you're just great!!!!!!!! I made it with your help!
but I wanna answer your questions:

I cannot capture with FCP. I never had such a problem! I tried all sort of things!
THe sequence settings HD was a mistake sometimes happens!!!!
I changed sequence settings, not easy setup.

my new Seq settings:
FS 720 x 480 NTSC DV
pix rat NTSC-CCIR
comp DV DVCPRO NTSC

I remove distort and basic motion and GREAT! It worked!!!!!

I didn't notice cos the clips were looking great except for the slows-mo!
So now I have to remove the shift field effect on each clip?

one more thing:

As I like muche better the 16:9 than 3:4, could I put it to anamorphic without any loss of format or quality or further problem?

have a nice night!!!!! beautiful your support!!!!!

> As I like muche better the 16:9 than 3:4, could I put it to anamorphic without any loss of format or
> quality or further problem?

Most people ask about "quality", but they don't really understand what it means. Many people think DVD is good quality (it's not). Many people think H.264 is a lossless format (it's not; it's a delivery codec).

Aspect ratio is something you decide before you shoot. It's not something you go back and forth on. You can do it, but the price is steep.

For example, if you wanted 16:9 but were working with DV, then you should have shot anamorphic 16:9. This would have given your image a widescreen frame with no letterbox or pillarbox bars. You can make "anamorphic widescreen" DVDs and widescreen movie files that will play on 16:9 HDTV sets without black bars.

If you have 4:3 DV now, the best you can do is apply a letterbox matte to it. You lose the top and bottom of your frame. If you wanted to make this anamorphic, without "pillarboxing" (black bars on left and right), you'd have to blow it up about 40 per cent, and DV will look like crap when you do that.

> means I have to open a new sequence, set it properly and copy paste my hd timeline?

You've probably already found out that this isn't necessary. In fact, this wouldn't have solved the problem at all. If you copied the clips from the HDV timeline to a DV timeline, the Distort and Scale settings would have carried over, producing the exact same results.

Next time, try to talk to a knowledgeable technical person (editor, consultant) before you shoot, find out what your camera shoots, how you'll edit the resulting material, what equipment you'll need, etc. You shouldn't start editing until you know what your specs are, and until you actually understand what those specs mean.


www.derekmok.com

Well, I think we may have solved your earlier problem here. Try using easy setup and setting it to dv-NTSC. You were trying to capture hdv earlier, which is why it didn't work.



www.strypesinpost.com

Derek, this footage arrived to me, I didn't shoot it!
Strypes, I tried to capture hd with hd settings, and the problem is still unsolved

I normally workflow that way but is not always possible!
thanks for being patient!

Still something is going wrong!
this 3:4 looks wierd to me! looking squeezed from the sides, without the black bands on top and bottom!

let me repit you the sequence settings:


FS 640 x 480 NTSC 4:3
pix rat NTSC-CCIR
comp DV DVCPRO NTSC
field dom lower
didn't check anamorphic

any suggestion?

Stop mucking around with the sequence settings. Things were fine earlier without you changing to 640x480 sq pixels. Use easy setup. You're making it worse by inventing your own video standards.

And can you start a new thread on capture issues? Try to detail exactly what your settings are, what hard drives you are using, how much drive space, what your machine model is, FCP, qt and is version... Basically provide everything. The last thread was about qt 7. iMovie is not a solution.



www.strypesinpost.com

I agree with Jude Cotter's assessment. You seem to be missing some crucial basic concepts of technical editing, and you're fumbling with attempted solutions without understanding either the problem or the solution fully, therefore creating brand-new problems at every turn. That means you are not ready to edit a project without a knowledgeable assistant editor guiding you through the technical parts.

STOP. Take a deep breath. Now open up one of your clips in the Viewer. Take a screen capture of your FCP interface so we can see your Viewer and your Canvas. Now press APPLE-9 to access the clip settings. Take a screen capture of those settings and post it here so we can see exactly what your media is. Now select the timeline and press APPLE-0. Screen-capture those Sequence Settings so we can see. Having read a number of your posts, I have doubts about whether you're always describing your problem (or your settings, or your operations) accurately.

I don't think you're ready to edit alone. Are you the editor? The director? You need both a technically adept assistant editor and, in the long run, as Jude wrote, an instructor.


www.derekmok.com

I agree with Derek and Jude. A forum is not a replacement for textbooks and courses on editing, but rather it supplements training and an education. Those give you a fundamental knowledge on how things work in the editing world, so you do not run in blindly and create more problems for yourself. It is one thing to be able to drag a clip into a timeline and trim it, and it is another to be able to get a great looking video out on the other end.

Think of forums as a church, where people come in to pray about their FCP problems, make confessions of their past sins, and leave knowing their problems are in the hands of others. Then there is schooling and education. This is Café LA, with beautiful pictures on the side, and there is God, and after God, Mike.



www.strypesinpost.com

Thanks for your great support before, but as can see your patience is gone!

I'm not an editor and still I think I have the right to edit, ain't I? I'm not a technician, I'm autodidacte and so far I learnt a lot. So, I learn on the way. Yes I'm able to finish a work, and yes, sometimes a great looking video as well. Sometimes I have problems. I'm not working with my hardrive. And there was a technician here that also couldn't log & capture from this FCP 6.

Still I have the right to learn, to not going to school or courses and to make mistakes and to post a problem when I have it!!!!!!!! The forum is open.

I'm sorry I bother you so much, you also had the right not to answer. Before I post an issue I try to solve it for myself, I read tutorials and other posts in the net. I don't think I need all those comentaries about god or whatever.

I'm not stupid I have to make a picture of the screen in order you to know my settings, people!!!!!!!!! I already said my settings, the questions I've been asked! But you rather to give me a sermon!!!!!!!

Besides that I'm spanish, so my understanding is not so PERFECT!!!! I'm sorry! I tried the spanish forum with no answer.

I'm very gratefull for all your support, really! You gave me good solutions sometimes.

Bt honestly let me decide if I need an instructor or if I'm ready to edit or not!!!!!

Thank you!

> I'm not stupid I have to make a picture of the screen in order you to know my settings, people!

Alioshka, we'll continue to try to help you if we can. All we're saying is that we are being hindered by the language barrier and your unfamiliarity with certain concepts, and you may miss things that more experienced operators might see right away on your screen. What we do on this forum is basically "blind" troubleshooting. It's not easy, and sometimes we simply need to see what you're seeing in order to know what's happening.

There's nothing wrong with being inexperienced and learning as you go. We're saying you'll learn faster, easier and more thoroughly if you had an actual instructor who's next to you and able to watch how you work. There are tutorials all over the internet, sure, but I can tell you for certain that even experienced editors benefit far more from in-person instruction than just reading words and watching videos off a web browser.


www.derekmok.com

Firstly, no one is out to deprive anyone of their learning, and all of us volunteer our time to provide advice at our own discretion, so do not expect us to fall at your feet. Next, most of us come in at the end of a hard day's work, we have the liberty of letting our hair down once in a while. Nothing personal.

There are tutorials out there, there are books, and there are training lessons. That is the best advice I can give you regarding your situation. I was merely saying that trying to substitute a forum for proper channels of learning will result in a frustrating experience for both you and the people who try to help you.



www.strypesinpost.com

Seems like I made a litle mess as my new timeline clips appear squared and squeezed in a strange proportion! No purpose to mess around though!

IMAC
MACOS X 10.6
PROC 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
FCP 6.0
QT 7

EASY SETUP: NTSC CUSTOM SETUP
sequence settings:
FS 720 x 480 NTSC 3:2
pix rat NTSC-CCIR
comp DV DVCPRO NTSC
field dom lower
didn't check anamorphic
how can I find the drive space?

the original footage is 720 x 480 DV captured from Imovie cos the imposibility of log& capture from FCP [www.lafcpug.org]

the story:

After making the mistake to set my sequence to HD y had to remove atributes and resize it. I thought was ok and then probably I did something wrong as appears too squared!

I ask you some help to resize it again.

I wonder if all that is a capture problem cos of Imovie capture.
If I start a new sequence checking anamorphic is doing fine. But my work is almost finished.
Does it give a clue?

thans a lot for your patienty as always!!!!!

Ailoshka, you need some training. You're getting deeper and deeper in trouble with every post, not resolving issues before moving on and stacking problems so deep it will become impossible for us to follow what you've done. Is there a training person or school in your area where you can get some one on one help?

These threads got merged so it's kind of odd to follow now, but all I was saying was that you're getting in deeper and you would benefit most from having someone sit beside you and point out what's going on, rather than us trying to blindly figure out where you're going, suggesting things and then finding you're doing other not-quite-right stuff that makes the first information not that useful. None of us wanted to be rude. That was just my honest assessment of what would be the best thing to get you working without spending all your time troubleshooting.

I merged it because the problems are all interlinked, and you cannot solve one without solving all the others. The ingest is not properly done, the capture/conversion from iMovie to FCP is suspect, FCP is not properly set up, the monitoring does not meet the standards required for the format that he is working with, and as a result we're looking at a mish-mash of problems that requires a book to explain and the OP needs 1 to 1 on-location guidance to troubleshoot whether he feels he requires it or not.



www.strypesinpost.com

hey people,

I know you're really great people trying to help others (absurd or silly sometimes like me) technical questions!

So I know you're not being rude. But you have to know that I already would have an instructor if I could. We don't have always what we think we need!

So I go on with my autodidacte slow way of learning and in this learning LAFPUG helped me a lot to solve conflicts that otherway would be worse. Thanks.

I know i messed up with the thread, just sorry! it just was in my aim to answer your questions and get there! For many months that I didn't open a new topic cos I didn't need!!!!!!!!!!

So believe me I don't take it personal, I hope you don't do it either!!!!!!!!

I'll be there again, then!