COLOR SHIFT; 7D footage; quick fix... HELP!

Hi,
I shot a vid on the 7D... edited on FCP and graded on COLOR... the fine cut is done and ready to output, but when exported/converted to h264 the color/gamma shifts, nasty red'ish!!!

I read around, found 5DtoRGB app to tackle this issue, but because I haven't been very active with FCP for a while, I need a few suggestions:
-Is there a better app/way to fix this issue without going back to the RAW files and convert them into prores? Maybe something I can do inside FCP!
-How do I allocate the footage used on the finecut only so that I can convert these segments alone?
-because I made some changes to the finecut after colored how do I apply those changes to the sequence i used before COLOR (it's obvious I'm gonna have to grade it again)?

PLEASE HELP!
thx

Hello

I shoot on 5D so sort of similar, what colour space is your camera set to?and are you using external broadcast monitor as part of your edit suite also do you convert to ProRes.
Need a bit more info please

Derek

I just sent my dp an email to ask him about the color space used on the shoot.
At this moment, not using the NTSC/brodcast monitor, but at least well balanced monitors with the datacolor spyder3 v4.02...
I didn't convert to ProRes; It's my first time cutting with 5D-7D files, so I am learning the workflow...

Ok, so how do I convert the footage used on the finecut only? Should I use the 5DtoRGB app?
I guess after converted i have to:

-dump all COLORed files
-reconnect FCP finecut sequence to new ProRes
-back to COLOR, render grades
-open new FCP seq, and convert/export...

but here is another question:
according to this article, the editor says he wants to avoid exporting/converting back to h264 because he still has problems with color after the conversion, what could I use to output for DVD and web?
What do you use Derek?

Firstly, I would avoid using computer monitors as a reference monitor. I don't think FCP/color does a good yuv-rgb conversion.

Without looking at your video, I am assuming you are viewing it in QTX. You need to enable FCP color compatibility in QuickTime 7 preferences and watch it in QT7, not X. There will be a gamma issue if you're using QTX.

Also, don't look at it as "converting it back" to h.264. H.264 is used as both a delivery format and with hardware acceleration, an acquisition codec. It makes a poor post production/mastering codec. This is because h.264 makes an acceptable video at low bitrates.

The issue of gamma is more to so with video. FCP was designed to work with video. Video is supposed to be encoded at an undercompensated 2.2 gamma curve for viewing in a dark environment. The problem with the web is that there is no standard for color calibration, and traditionally Apple used a gamma of 1.8 as they took into account a bright desktop viewing environment. That may have changed with SL.

I'm not too sure what color profile canon uses or if you can select the color profile. I have seen a few variants (eg. Colors clipping too early on some shots). And I'm not too sure how 5D2RGB works, aside from using their own h.264 decoder.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote
MRam
the fine cut is done and ready to output, but when exported/converted to h264 the color/gamma shifts, nasty red'ish!!!

If you open that exported H.264 file back in Final Cut Pro, how does it compare with the sequence you used for export? What is the "export" sequence setttings (codec, render control, etc.)? Did you grade this project in Color using only computer displays?

-----

Even if you do a HW calibration with your computer display, it isn't going to be a valid color reference. And, with Mac OS X 10.6.x (Snow Leopard), the OS will automatically create a ColorSync display profile using a gamma of 2.2 (still not the same as a proper Y'CbCr color space on a proper external video monitor). However, you can choose to create a ColorSync display profile with any gamma you want, or use profiles supplied with third-party apps or bundled with monitors. None of these will provide a truly accurate preview of your video.


-Dave

On a 5D you have the choice of sRGB or AdobeRGB

strypes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Firstly, I would avoid using computer monitors as
> a reference monitor. I don't think FCP/color does
> a good yuv-rgb conversion.

Got it, but for the time being, I have to deal with it... I'm using a CRT Phillips 109B, and a NEC Multisync LCD 2000 (a little old, so I'm having a hard time trusting it)

> Without looking at your video, I am assuming you
> are viewing it in QTX. You need to enable FCP
> color compatibility in QuickTime 7 preferences and
> watch it in QT7, not X. There will be a gamma
> issue if you're using QTX.

Yes, I was... just changed QT7 preference, and see the issue... Not gonna use QTx anymore.

> Also, don't look at it as "converting it back" to
> h.264. H.264 is used as both a delivery format and
> with hardware acceleration, an acquisition codec.
> It makes a poor post production/mastering codec.
> This is because h.264 makes an acceptable video at
> low bitrates.

Well, I need to compress for DVD playback and web; what codec(s) would do you recommend I use?

> I'm not too sure what color profile canon uses or
> if you can select the color profile. I have seen a
> few variants (eg. Colors clipping too early on
> some shots). And I'm not too sure how 5D2RGB
> works, aside from using their own h.264 decoder.

I have a pink'ish shift on the skin, which bothers me, but not as much as the orange scarf dude decided to wear (it turned red'ish, but not in a nice red)... I allowed it, now is biting me in the behind...!
Also I have read all of the replies, and yes I did messed up, I skipped converting the canon footage into prores; now I need to fix it!
*I'm looking at it again: inside COLOR everything looks pretty, once i send it out color changes, so even inside FCP (the issue starts after COLOR)
*If I create subclips from each cut, and replace them with converted prores, would that take care of this issue?

Yea, convert everything to pro res and replace the clips (you may have to swap the file path so Color can reconnect to it). You will probably have to look at your grades again, since color and FCP access the h.264 files in different ways.

If the current files look different after you send it back to FCP, it may be caused by rendering h.264. But without looking at your project, I could be barking up the wrong tree.

>On a 5D you have the choice of sRGB or AdobeRGB

Interesting. Which one causes FCP to map white point to 235?



www.strypesinpost.com