HDV Project

I'm getting ready to edit an HDV documentary (shot on Sony Z1U). I know my system is not quite up to the task of a 2 hour plus HD film. I could use some suggestions on system requirements and minimums.

first off, I am currently using FCP HD 4.5. Is it imperative that I use FCP 5 or higher?

Secondly, I'm using 2 GB memory. What is the minimum that is recommended?

Third, I will be using a dedicated drive for storage of content only no applications. If someone can give me a general ratio of: [blank] minutes of HDV for every 1GB drive space, I could figure this one out myself.

Lastly: I understand that HDV can be natively edited on FCP but can FCP capture direct from camera or deck, or do I need a plug-in like LuminereHD ?

Any other tips or links would be appreciated.

Thanks

K. F.

You need FCP5 to edit in HDV. Beyond that you need to know what you're outputting to. One of the best and most cost effective formats is to convert to HDVC PRO and edit in that format. Shane is the guy to ask about this. If you do a search on HDV workflow, you'll find a ton of stuff on the subject. Good luck.

Yes, FCP5 and up "knows" what HDV is. The earlier versons don't.

The data stream for HDV is roughly the same as MiniDV, except the pictures are much more highly compressed. The up side is a saving on drive space and the ability to capture directlly from the camera.

The downside is the pictures are brittle. It doesn't take a lot of special effects to reveal the tricks. HDV doesn't do post gracefully.

Koz

Quote

One of the best and most cost effective formats is to convert to HDVC PRO and edit in that format.

That would be DVCPRO HD.

There's nothing wrong with editing in HDV Format in 5.1.1. Do a search and you should find plenty on the subject. If you keep it at HDV, you can use a G-RAID2 500 GB drive - $500 and get 4 realtime streams of HDV (3 realtime streams of DVCPRO HD):

1 hr of HDV 1080i = 11.25 GB (188 MB per minute)
1 hr of HDV 720p = 8.73 GB (146 MB per minute)
1 hr of DVCPRO HD 1080i60 = 52.48 GB (875 MB per minute)
1 hr of DVCPRO HD 720p60 = 26.59 GB (444 MB per minute)

You should also look at SATA RAID enclosures:

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

HDV will run you about 12GB per hour. It produces file sizes which are actually smaller than regular DV. DVCProHD at full 1080i runs about 52GB per hour. (Just download and install the VideoSpace widget from the Apple site, it will do all the calculations for you) Both codecs will run fine off firewire drives.

Lumiere HD came about when HDV arrived but FCP was not yet HDV compatible. With version 5 you can play HDV directly in to FCP via firewire off the camera. No need for any special plugins. For proper monitoring though, be it HDV or DVCProHD, you'll need an HD card with HDLink and at least a 23" Cinema Display.

2GB of RAM is on the low side. Max useable RAM in FCP at the moment is 4.5 GB.

In general, if your cut is just straight edits and dissolves, you're good to stay in HDV. If you're doing anything more ambitious, then you are better off in DVCProHD, which is a frame-based HD codec as opposed to HDV's mpeg Group of Pictures (GOP) based codec.

DVCProHD uses the fulll digital informatioin for each and every frame. HDV only uses the difference between each frame in groups of 15 pictures for NTSC, 12 pictures for PAL. Hence the big difference in file sizes. But, there is a big drawback with HDV: it renders and encodes (to DVD or other formats) very slowly. A full render of a 2 hour show for final output is going to take many hours to process, even on a 4.5 GB machine. Therefore, I'd definetly work in DVCProHD for a project that size.

hth,
Clay

Hi K. F.

System: The fastest machine you can afford. -Remember your time is valuable too - probably worth a lot more than anything you would save by not having the fastest machine you can get your hands on. Most G4s and even many G5s aren't even fast enough to just play 1080i properly, let alone edit. If you can't afford to buy one, rent.

FCP: Same deal - get the latest FCP Studio package.

Remember that HD in any flavor requires that a machine process a great deal more data and you will be frustrated at the sluggishness of your system, no matter how fast it is - many are using workflows that use SD proxy files to do most of thier edit work.

There are dozens of workflows, many of which you'll find by searching this forum. Which one to use depends on your project, your intended output format, and your budget.

Before you start - learn everything you can about HDV. Then try a few workflows with about twenty seconds of video - take the trial process all the way to the final output. If the project is for delivery to film out or broadcast, be sure you get the film-transfer house, or network's requirements and recommendations in advance.

Because HD is new, delivery and workflow standards are not mature, and are changing constantly.

A few days spent on experimentation and preparation will save you weeks later.

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

<<<A few days spent on experimentation and preparation will save you weeks later.>>>

What he said.

Koz

then if DVC Pro HD is 52 gigs an hour. What is a P2 camera good for if you can only record a few minutes at a time.
can a MiniDV tape handle DVCProHD and still look good?

"...What is a P2 camera good for.."

I take that back..what I meant to say was - this camera might not be practival for field shoots if you can only record a few minutes at a time.

I'm going to kind of hijack this thread a little bit as ask about mixing HDV formats.

Sony's HDV is 1080i and JVC's in 720p, what's the best way to go about combining the two in one timeline? Should i render Sony's down to 720p or should i render everything out to DVCPro HD? There would be four cameras and i'd like to multicam but not sure if i have the bandwidth to stream 4 DVCpro HD clips but i know it will handle the HDV clips.

You get a few 8 GB - P2 cards and one of these:

[eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp]

...or get a few Fire-Store FS100 drives (1.5 hrs of DVCPRO HD each)

[catalog2.panasonic.com]

Where there's a will... there's a way. You gotta have faith

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Thanks all.

I appreciate the advice. I am in the process of upgrading hardware (RAM, Graphic card, external drive 500GB). I am also upgrading the OS and I am presently looking for a good price on FCP 5.1. Two questions, If I am currently using FCP 4.5 HD, can I get away with paying only an upgrade price? and secondly, what is the difference between "Universal Binary Version" and Non-Universal Binary?
If it has to do with the Mac I am using, it is not the new duel core Intel Mac. Not sure which version I need.

K,

If you plan on upgrading in the future (everyone does), the Universal Binary version (PowerPC & MacIntel compatible) is what you need - works on both computers. You don't have to look for a "good price"... there is a tremendous sidegrade special offered right now by Apple and the prices are RIDICULOUSLY LOW. Send in your current disks and a small fee and you get UB Disks sent to you. Check the list for your version:

[www.apple.com]

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Regarding the workflow.

I would recommend you look into converting all the footage from HDV to something else before editing.
I have found that HDV is painful to edit in because it slows down the computer.
It is also a very fragile codec so any color corrections will look like @#$%&.

Johan Polhem
Motion Graphics
www.johanpolhem.com

What's up everyone,
working on a large commercial style project and we have been shooting a variety of formats do to equipment availability. Been shooting HDV and DV (16:9) with an XLH1 and DV (16:9) with a sony DSR 570. Using FCP 5.1.1 and wondering what will be best to convert and edit too? DVCproHD sounds fine but can you up-res the DV to this format to be compatible on the same timeline with the HDV footage? if not please suggest.. open to any help.
thanks a ton,

Ryan halsey
cessna aircraft
rudemaxx@aol.com