HD workflow - 1080 24p - and best set up for it

Hi there Fabulous Peops,

Up for a job which would be ongoing, all HDCam and, if it comes through, I'd have input on the equipment set up...

Would like to get a second opinion from y'all today if anyone is so inclined. Here's what I know so far:

-Multicam shoots, with controlled lighting - in a lecture hall setting
-3 to 4 higher end Studio Cameras (have not been informed of the model yet) feeding signal to individual HDCAM decks
-Live video switcher to tape, with live mixer feed, but also all ISO tape sources would come to me
-Final content to be compressed mostly for the web, podcasts, phone-casts, etc, not to tape as far as I know (uncompressed files would most likely be archived on drives)

Would appreciate hearing your views on best gear. I recently have used FCP 5.1.2 on the Intel Tower which was as fast as greased-lightning, but I had to switch machines to use Photoshop and DVD SP, which was an annoyance. So what do you think: 2 machines? Just the G5 dual?

Any workflow/codec/downconversion thoughts?

Thanks for all of your thoughts and/or amusing anecdotes, in advance,

Marla

Marla,

Do you know which HDCAM version this is? If it's uncompressed HD then you will need a really large and fast RAID storage to play it out. If it's the latest Sony XDCAM MFX then the content is more like MPEG-2 at a slightly faster rate but not like uncompressed HD.

Besides the storage you might need a 4:2:2 capture card, if the tapes are going to be delivered and you will need to rent an HD deck to capture them into your system.

Although I would doubt it, make sure that 5.1.2 has the proper codecs to work in the format they will deliver. MFX is one of those Sony things that can throw a lot of folks.

I think they use Panasonic cameras, I'll be finding out more details tomorrow. I have used HD in the past, Varicam shot onto DVCam tapes (720p with the DVC Pro HD Codec), but this is HDCAM 1080 24p. And they are not using cards, they are recording onto tape decks.

Thanks,

Marla

"-Final content to be compressed mostly for the web, podcasts, phone-casts, etc, not to tape as far as I know (uncompressed files would most likely be archived on drives) "

You're webcasting, podcasting and phonecasting and you want to use HDCam? You could save them a sh!!load of money by ditching the HDCam idea. You know how much drive space it will require to archive 4 cameras worth of "ongoing" uncompressed HDCam?

Have they considered an all-DVCam set-up? Everything would be much cheaper and easier (for you) to deal with. Considering the delivery medium, more than enough. It sounds like the sales force at your production company has sold some poor sap a bill of goods.

Are you working out of a production truck or will this be entirely purpose-built? Generally, a fully equipped HD production truck costs about twice as much per day as an SD truck. Maybe somebody got a deal. But it's only a deal upfront.

I agree with Tim that editing in Uncompressed HDCam would be overkill, but I'd disagree about using DVCam as the editing format. If possible, I'd go up to DVCPro HD (as an editing codec) or Uncompressed SD. This allows you to create a great-looking master for archival purposes. Very often on projects like these, the clients encounter different needs down the road and want a tape copy, a recut, a copy they would project big, etc. If you go DVCam, the quality would suffer if that happens.


www.derekmok.com

I've seen some DVCam 24p projected and it looked pretty sweet. Considering the likelyhood of a
taped lecture (if that's what it is) ever needing to hit the big screen...

As for the archiving, I'd just keep the tapes. Dumping ALL that material to hard drives sounds like a huge waste of time for no benefit. It sounds like the job might be cleaning up mis-punches by the director on the switched tape copy and then pumping it out to the internet. If that's true, she needs to know the best method of compressing for that. If I had a bailiwick, it wouldn't be that.

Anyway, It's probably past the point where she can influence the camera/deck choices. Unfortunately, those decisions are usually made by people who haven't a clue. We are left to make it all work.

They are preparing for open ended future uses of the material, and it is really wonderful content. I do think it's overkill to take something so big to compress it that small, but that part is not my choice.

They are talking about getting an HDCAM deck and an Xraid, later an Xsan, and editing totally native, these are fast weekly edits, ongoing. A new edit each week. So once cut, we'd delete the media assets but save the uncompressed files of the final sequences.

How does this sound:

2 Intel machines with matching software so 2 peops can share aspects of the projects/X-raid or X-san/Kona cards/HDCAM deck: sound good? With a G5 tower on the side for other apps that aren't compatible to the Intel yet?

The archive of older work, which needs to stay accessable, is all on DV, so there'd be some format jumping, but not in the same project (hopefully)...

Please share your thoughts,

Thanks!

Marla

Sounds kind of nutty if you ask me. No big deal to downconvert to DV Cam and edit that. You can always go back and output to HD Cam when and if that " open ended future use" comes to pass. Save them a bundle of money in storage cost too.

Michael Horton
-------------------

>> They are talking about getting an HDCAM deck and an Xraid, later an Xsan, and editing
>> totally native
> Sounds kind of nutty if you ask me.

Oh God, yes. Editing HDCam for this job would be very costly, time-consuming, overkill. Larger files mean longer export times, a less responsive system, huge storage requirements. Even Tim's suggestion of going down to DV may be enough for a lot of people.

You may need to talk to them with your experience. I know a lot of people dipping their toes in the water are only aware that "HD looks great". They don't understand that properly lit and shot HDCam downconverted to Uncompressed SD may, to their eyes, look just as great. And cost a hell of a lot less.


www.derekmok.com

"And they are not using cards, they are recording onto tape decks. "

at least one of the editors will need a card to capture from those tapes

look into the Kona or Blackmagic cards.
with these you can down-convert during capture to DVCProHD 720p
(6 months ago when i tried a BlackMagic card there were problems with this. they've probably been fixed by now)

DVCProHD 720p is very easy to work with.
doesn't require huge bandwidth,
and will look great blown up onto a big screen.

What's the content Marla? Can you say?
Cause I'm with everyone else thinking that this is a huge over-investment for the type of work you're talking about. Many large broadcast programs don't go to that kind of expense.

It turns out there is a "nother" reason for shooting hi-def, found out today that, at the live event half the audience is viewing the speakers, live, the switcher version, on a large screen outside the auditorium.

And when I said "no cards," I meant no P2 cards. They are planning to get Kona cards...

Can't spill the exact content yet but it is basically illustrious peops giving talks on a stage to an audience.

I like the 720p idea. I love the DCVProHD codec at 720p myself. If I get the gig I will definitely have this conversation with them on a more serious level...

Thanks Y'all,

Marla

OK friends, I just reread this thread and realized I'd missed an important point. Glad to know about the capture from 1080/24p to 720/24p is possible with the Kona card, as that's the card I'll be getting.

Are there any pitfalls to be aware of? And can you do it with any deck, or does it need a specific HDCAM deck?

Thanks,

Marla

If you're recording HDCam, then yes, you'll need an HDCam deck. Sounds like you're already gonna have several so one.. more.. thin.. mint.