downside to "downconverting " HD from 1080/24p to 720/24p at capture?

Hi again gang,

Looks like I've been offered the HD job I applied for 2 weeks ago: yay!

Still waiting to hear about the HDCAM camera model they will be using, all I know so far is that they're large Panasonic studio cameras, and that they plan to shoot at 1080/24p with 4 cameras, a live switcher, a mixer sound feed, and simultaneous projection. All cameras' sources will be recorded and I'll get the tapes to do a weekly multi-cam edit that'll be web-bound.

They are thinking about cutting native, but I am going to thoroughly discuss this potentially over-complicating idea with them, and recommend DVCProHD, preferably at 720/24p. I've used the DVCProHD codec (with material shot at 720/24 on a Varicam) and I LOVE it.

Are there pitfalls to be aware of when capturing HDCAM 1080/24p through the DVCProHD codec at 720/24p? Is this even doable, and would it require a particular HDCAM deck?

As soon as I find out about the cameras I'll know if they can shoot at 720 or not and, if so I'll recommend some extensive testing, following the whole workflow using a variety of codecs/ compression...

Thanks and, as always, I appreciate the fine sterophonic quality of this sounding board,

Marla

So I just found out that they are not sure yet which cameras they'll use. The basic info I need to know is:

If you shoot on HDCAM, 1080/24p, can you capture into FCP at 720/24p with the DVCProHD codec, using an HDCAM deck?

Or do you need to have shot at 720/24p in order to capture that way (or else downconvert the tapes first which is not going to be an option in this case)?

If y'all know of a reliable general HD info source, that'd be helpful too...

Thanks!

Marla

feel like I'm chattin with myself here, but serves me right: I just re-read my other thread to discover that part of this wuestion has been answered. With the Kona card, the one I'll have, apparently one can - at capture - convert 1080/24p to 720/24p.

Great to know.

Even though I am a pesky poster to this wonderful site, I'll have y'all know that I often DO check the FAQ, and it does yield answers. This particular question wasn't addressed there that I could see, the HD thread was more about HDV, but still I want to plug the FAQ because it is a great resource!

In addition, I am curious for more info on this prospective workflow I'll soon be dealing with. So, if anyone has experience to share about the possible pitfalls of downconverting at capture, Kona cards, HDCAM decks, or sharing media through Xsans, I'd appreciate it. Or any recommended reading on the subject too. I'll check for articles now...

Thanks,

Still Marla

The Kona also has a 1080psf 23.98p DVC Pro HD easy set-up so you should give that a try as well. Also, since you're using a Kona card, you'll need to choose the "AJA Kona" easy set-ups, not the built-ins.

Marla,

You seem to run into a lot of over-complications on your gigs Why not do it native & save yourself the headaches?

My 2¢ is you should call Aja and talk to Tech Support about it. They are EXTREMELY helpful and can probably walk you through your Kona workflow (Steve or Rudy).

My LHe / KL-Box is on the way...

Good Luck

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Yes, you can capture 1080p24 HDAM as 720p24 DVCPRO HD via a capture card.

Pitfalls of XSAN? It is very complex and requires to be set up very specifically, but once you get it right, then it works great. Shared media workflows? THere are many out there, but I don't know of articles on the topic. I do have a Tutorial DVD coming out soon that touches on this topic. If you can wait for it (less than a month I hope) then you can buy it. If not, you can contact me and I can consult for you for a nominal fee.

Send a private message if interested.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Just about everyone I know uses this workflow. At least those that shoot HDCam or some form of 444 HD. There are other shared storage solutions other than Xsan but if Xsan is your choice then a visit to Xsan support is in order. There are a lot of excellent companies here in LA who set up Xsan for you. Apple engineers in NYC will do it for you too.

[www.apple.com]

Michael Horton
-------------------

Thanks for the valuable info y'all!

TimJBD, you wrote "The Kona also has a 1080psf 23.98p DVC Pro HD easy set-up so you should give that a try as well."

Have you used it? Does the DVC Pro HD codec shrink the files down similarly small to the 720/24p DVC PRo HD codec? I couldn't believe how beautifully that worked, it was like DV practically, I was able to use external FW400 drives with no problem.

I'm going to have about a TB of internal drive space initially, and the job starts out in DV and will move to HD after the TED conference in March, so I do have a month to prepare which is great. I'm hoping that they'll humor me and that we'll shoot some tests to play with the workflow and compression in advance. But I am much relieved to know that I can go directly from 1080/24p HDCAM into a DVCProHD codec, without downconverting to 720p (as they are pretty set on shooting at 1080/24p: there will be many future uses for this material, and not all of the platforms are even known yet, possibly including appleTV, HDTV, further live events with projection and/or monitors, these are all possibilities, in addition to podcasts, phone-casts and webcasts which are already in the works).

Shane - how cool that you are doing a tutorial on the topic of shared-media workflows. If it's out in time for my needs I'll buy it, otherwise I'll email you to discuss.

Michael- Xsan is not my choice, but it is what the organization is talking about. The situation is that I'll be the editor, and then there is a lovely fellow who's the sort of engineer/compression dude, he'll be digitizing and compressing among other things, and we'll be sharing projects to some degree. So, for the most part it'll be 2 Macs (latest Intels) sharing media, and then occasionally our boss and/or an outside graphics person will be contributing (but they will have their own machines, just taking and giving files back I believe)... So, at this point it's just the 2 machines - identically loaded in terms of software and hardware, with shared media, and as you suggest, we could handle the "shared storage solutions" in a variety of ways.

If you recommend I check out alternate solutions to Xsan, I'd appreciate hearing about them.

And Joey-thanks for the rec on Steve and Rudy at AJA. I have used AJA converters in the past (for SD 10 bit stuff) and I did find their tech support to be solid. But when you say "native," do you mean WITHOUT the DVCProHD codec? Or did you just mean not to bother downconverting to 720?

Thanks again everyone,

Marla

"TimJBD, you wrote "The Kona also has a 1080psf 23.98p DVC Pro HD easy set-up so you should give that a try as well."

Have you used it? Does the DVC Pro HD codec shrink the files down similarly small to the 720/24p DVC PRo HD codec? I couldn't believe how beautifully that worked, it was like DV practically, I was able to use external FW400 drives with no problem."

Nope. Never used it. But it's there if you want it.