Need to export to VHS with Sempte Timecode on audio Channel two - old fashioned way

Hello Geniuses,

I have a dear friend who is doing the sound on my no-budget labor of love, I'm blessed because he's a very talented sound designer who even has an Academy Award Winning film on his resume.

He has a Fairlight system (ten-year old high end system that doesn't have firewire). He wants me to give him a VHS tape with Sempte time code on audio channel two of the VHS at minus 10 db. He said to put all the audio on one channel and the time code goes on the other.

Any suggestions as to how to the best way to do this? I doubt FCP does this, or does it?

Thanks!

<<<I doubt FCP does this, or does it? >>>

Not by itself.

First, SMPTE Time Code is an audio signal. So once you have it falling out of a connector somewhere, a trip to Radio Shack should give you the adapters to the VHS machine. It may be a little rough to get the levels right, but most machines aren't particular.

So somehow, you have to get the framing code out of the timeline or DV tape and into SMPTE format (which is twice as complicated) and then converted to an audio signal.

I thought our AJA interface machines would do it, but it turns out no.

I know you can push off your show to a DigiBeta machine and then play the DBeta show to the VHS and apply the Radio Shack adapters and cross the channels that way.

Koz

I'm trying to devine the cheapest way to do this. The problem is that timecode is usually "hidden" in the outside world. It exists as VITC where they bury time signals inside the video signal or as one of the components inside the RS-422 machine control cable. Neither of those two gives you the raw SMPTE audio signal needed for this exercise.

You need to find the cheapest professinal high-end tape machine that actually has a TC Out connection, and then arrange your show to be recorded onto it, and then played back to the VHS tape. I know the BVW-75 has this connection and the PVW-2800 does. I'm pretty sure the UVW-1800--the tape machine usually found in edit rooms--won't do that.

Most tape machines and interface boards and devices don't have SMPTE because very few people need it. For example, to lay your show off to deliverable tape, you would cause the tape machine to "black and code" your tape which produces the time on one or more tracks of the tape and then the editing system matches this tape up with your show and records. No external SMPTE needed.

As people wake up on Monday, you will probably be told to deliver a dv tape to somebody who can use more modern techniques.

Koz

Any Dub house older than two years will be able to do this. If you can create a tape source (DVCAM, BetaSP...) that has the correct TC to picture, make a one channel mix of your show and dump it out to the right TC on the tape. Be a nice guy and put a cue beep with bars 2 seconds before and after program, just in case. Take the tape to a dub house and take a blank VHS with you as they may have moved into the 21st century and stopped ordering that stock. Tell them what you want and it should take no time. I've made more of those tapes than I care to remember when I had access to Beta decks.

On the other hand, if you aren't near a Dub house here is a Hail Mary play (I think thats an American football reference) for you....
Some one on here must have access to a BWV 75 or PVW2800. They could digitize the audio from that into FCP. The tape would need to be the TC you could use in your sequence. That nice person could send you the audio file and you could drop it into your sequence and dump it to tape any way you please. The nice person would need to make sure they had a TC calibrated system so audio TC matched the LTC that FCP received and that all that info made it's way to you but it could be done. Keep your speakers low, TC is a nasty noise!!
Come to think of it that would be a handy file to have around for these Jurassic jobs that show up every once in a while. There is lots of old tech out there getting lots of use, it's the interchange that is the killer.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Do you have access to the DigiBeta or Beta decks these guys are recommending? Do you have the card in your Mac that will give you the SD outputs that these decks require?

If not, there is a second "hail mary", to borrow from Andrew.

Certain professional DVCam decks, like the Sony DSR-45, have timecode out. You can rent one or borrow one if you don't have access to one. Do an edit to tape via firewire of your timeline with the reference audio mixed all onto audio track 1. It won't matter if you record on channel 2, but just know that anything that's on channel 2 that's not on channel 1 won't make it to the VHS dub, so make sure it's a mono mix. Then you could run a BNC cable from the timecode out on the 45 to the channel 2 audio input on the VHS deck. You'll need a BNC-RCA connector, commonly called a "bullet" to change the other end of the BNC cable into an RCA, or an RCA-BNC connector if you only have RCA cables available, to connect to the TC out on the deck. These connectors are things that are commmonly found at Radio Shack. If the levels need to be adjusted, you might need to put a mixer in-line, between the deck and the VHS.

As long as you have that 2-pop in place on the tape & on your timeline, you should be able to slip the track back into sync if the copy you made to DVCam slipped because FW isn't 100% reliable when it comes to time code.

It won't be as slick as if you were using a RS-422 controlled deck and could get 100% reliable timecode, but it's certainly do-able, and shouldn't make you want to tear out your hair...much...

But hopefully, you have access to a Digital Beta or Beta SP deck and you have an I/O card. That'll make it a lot easier.

debe

<<<I have a dear friend who is doing the sound on my no-budget labor of love>>>

So now that you're completely terrified at the sudden increase in funding that your project will require, you see my comment about this being a really old way to do this. We, too, used to crank out these crossed-timecode tapes for many editors and I think the last one went through here about five or more years ago.

Usually, the first time a house can't get the oddball tapes for a big show is the first time they invest in a system that doesn't need it.

<<<who even has an Academy Award Winning film on his resume. >>>

He has pewter-colored hair like me and has a setup in the garage, right? Is he retired? What film?

Koz

Hi-

A "last chance-down-and-dirty" option is to have someone burn you an LTC audio track as an .aif (referenced to a good, solid black source) out of an audio workstation sync box, like a Digidesign USD, or a MOTU Timepiece. Some audio decks will spit out LTC to pre-stripe there media- DA78/88/98, for instance. That would work, in a pinch.

Make sure it's of the correct length, timecode format and starts at a known address, then slide it into your FCP session at the correct start frame. Output to VHS as you normally would, making sure the audio level of the timecode track is within spec.

There will be some slop but, if it's done in the digital domain, you may be surprised how well it works.

There used to be a reference CD that had these sorts of tracks pre-made- Prosonus or something like that?

cheers,

tc

<<<There will be some slop but, if it's done in the digital domain, you may be surprised how well it works.>>>

That's an idea. This is where I leap into the fray and record one for you, but I'm not at work. Sorry.

Make sure to get the right Drop Frame/Non Drop Frame type. If the show is 23.976, 29.97 or 59.94, it's drop frame. 24, 30, 60 take Non-Drop Frame.

Koz

<<<burn you an LTC audio track>>>

I did think of a reason not to do it quite that way. Produce a highly compressed video track with a white character readout of the time on the audio track. Otherwide, you won't know "when" your track is going down.

I wonder if ixschell still needs that....

Koz