Need to send roughcut clips over the web for client approval

Hi All,

(I did a quick search on the forum thread but did not find a obvious quick answer)

I need to find as quick and easy a way possible to send video cilps over the web for roughcut client approvals over the next few months. My upload is Verizon DSL. The clips would average 3-5 mins. in length. Audio is stereo but we can render it mono if need be. Original source quailty is DV-NTSC . The client is likely viewing on PC's (possibly Mac as well). Quaility needs to be acceptable, but since this is primarily a content based approval, a smaller than full screen viewer at reduced rez is acceptable. Ease on both ends is key. The client is not very technically savy.

FCP 4.5, 2.5 GHZ G-5, 2.5 Gig RAM, QT 6.5.2

Thanks,

Marc

It actually looks to me like you have most of the strategy nailed already. QuickTime movies in MPEG-4 codec tend to be pretty accessible. If your client has H.264, that would look better while resulting in smaller file sizes, but since you're running FCP4.5, you won't have that codec (and it is not advised that you upgrade to QuickTime 7 -- QT7 doesn't play nice with FCP4.5). If all else fails, buy Flip4Mac (the free version will not do the job) to add WMV import/export capability to your FCP and QuickTime Player.

At three to five minutes, I'd probably aim for 320x240, 200-400 kbps, Mono sound at 44.1kHz.


www.derekmok.com

--Or--

If the client is willing to download free QuickTime Player to their PCs (highlly recommended), you could use Sorenson3 compression. If they're not, you're stuck with making PC friendly files with Flip4Mac.

You did miss the train by not having a later version of QT, OSX, and FCP. Do Not upgrade them out of order or in pieces! You could damage your machine.

In extreme, you could encode your stuff with Flash and post it all on your FTP site. If they can see YouTube, then they're golden.

Koz

Hi Koz & Derek,

Thanks for the bounce. Turns out the client is all Mac. A 4 minute flie I tested per Dereks suggestion ends up 11+ meg. - real slow on the up load. Any suggestions on a zip compress program or if need be, an easy to set up FTP chain that the client and I can use.

Best,

Marc

i wouldnt think that youre going to save that much with a zip effort.

cyberduck is a super easy FTP software. and its free/shareware.

what are you currently using to upload files and where are you uploading them to?
i have a client review "samples" (public space) volume set up for "directory browsing" via my web host. and i just direct my clients to "www.xyz.com/samples" and boom, there is a list of all the stuff they want to see.

Hi Wayne,

Have not had a great need to FTP recently. My web designer has dealt with all that in the past. I know there are alot of free spaces etc. available. I don't have alot of time to set up and test. Any suggestions on a quick & easy one appreciated.

Best,

Marc

<<<real slow on the up load.>>>

Be careful on your directions. Uploading something to a server somewhere is always slow. Most DSL or Cable connections are *far* slower going up than they are coming back down on the customer side. My personal service at the house is 385K painfully pushing stuff up but 1500K flowing back down.

If you're going to do a lot of this, it may pay you to invest in your own web site and server. If you pay for it, you tend to get much better service, larger storage numbers, and faster connections. Also you can get your own space for FTP services already set up where you can change user names and passwords as you feel like it. "Fetch" your brains out.


Since everybody's on Macs, what happens if you do try Sorenson3? That's not a dreadful compressor and I believe the one with FCP 4.5 works very well.

Koz

Did you ask the client if *they* had an FTP site?

Koz

i dont know of any "free spaces" but there are a variety of free sending services like yousendit.

having your own dedicated hosting/server deal isnt going to do a great deal to speed your uploads. you are still going to be limited by the upload cutoff speed of your ADSL contract.

i think that every "new media" professional should have and get their head around using their own domain/hosting situation. just makes your life easier and your overall professional image a bit more cohesive...

godaddy.com, hosting.com both offer really good deals on space/service

Some really good points made here I think.

I wouldn't really want to show a client any work at less resolution than what's been talked about. 11mb for 4 minutes is in fact a little under what I go for. The client EG I did yesterday was 16.1mb for 3 minutes. I did need stereo sound though (music clip).

As for the upload factor, yep, DSL, ADSL etc generally bite. I've got a medium (for Australia) ADSL connection at 512/256up. I max at about 12kps, which is terrible and annoying.

I suggest you install MenuMeters to track your internet throughput to make sure whatever hosting situation you end up using maxes out your connection. I find that just about anything maxes mine!

On the plus side, the dog loves it - nice long walks. Or I do it overnight.

as long as were moaning about upload speeds check this "deal" that time warner forced me into...

at home i have their digital cable/cable modem service. roughly $65/month and i get digital TV, HBO, STARS and like 200 other dubiously valuable channels and i get about 1.5 meg down / 100k up. and the overall performance has been quite reliable.

when i moved into my office space mid last year i called time warner for similar services. the person on the phone said "sir, this is a business address so im going to have to send you the business class dept." - ok, i guess that makes sense. after chatting with them i find that i have to pay $90 and for that extra $20 i get a whopping 200k down / 30k up!!!!!! AND if i want TV thats another $40

so for basically DOUBLE the price i get less than ONE THIRD of the performance that i get at home. and since im in a business address i have no other option.

HOORAY TIME WARNER!!!

I disagree with the following statement posted above:

"It is not advised that you upgrade to QuickTime 7 -- QT7 doesn't play nice with FCP4.5."

We are currently cutting 2 features, and very happily running FCP 4.5 with QT 7 under OS 10.3.9 on our dual 2g Power PC G5 with no problems, and h.264 is the codec to use for quality!

Quote

I don't have alot of time to set up and test. Any suggestions on a quick & easy one appreciated.

MJG,

Clients are king, man. If you have clients... that means you are gettin' paid. That means you have to do what you have to do to make the work ACCESSIBLE TO THE CLIENT so you can keep gettin' paid. Set up your own FTP site with your own host space (2 Gigs) with your own URL, unlimited email addys, $5 domain registration, 30 FTP Sub-accounts, 40 Gigs of data transfer per month 24/7 Tech Support all for $10 per month. That's a ridiculous price. Go to ICDSoft and tell them Joe "DigiDojo" Morelli referred you:

[www2.icdsoft.com]

It also looks good to the client when you give them their own username & password to see their stuff. It's the little things that keep 'em comin' back, my friend.

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

More ideas for you.

A couple years ago I tested an iSight/iChatAV video conference with Nick Meyers (Boston to Australia) and it was cool. We did a live chat then switched over and watched eachother's sample work. Very viewable. In fact he didn't even have iSight-- he used a FireWire camera in iChat AV.

Lots of possibilities besides upload-and-wait. Of course live means you have to be there and it ties up the machine. But it can be interactive. Also look at www.ivisit.com or even Second Life (www.secondlife.com), for a hosting mechanism for these kinds of R&A conferences.

- Loren
Today's FCP 4 / 5 keytip:
Set a multi-parameter Motion FX Keyframe with Control K !

The FCP KeyGuide?: your power placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

<<<"It is not advised that you upgrade to QuickTime 7 -- QT7 doesn't play nice with FCP4.5." >>>

When I post I don't say that it doesn't work. I say it's an known unstable condition, much like daisy chaining 50 FireWire drives. Some people get away with it, some people don't. You just haven't encountered the "evil magic" yet.

Koz

I constantly send large files (up to 900+megs) back and forth with a business companion using this.
[www.pando.com]

Free, easy to use, PC or Mac.
Give it a try.
Works in the background and no hassles/spyware, etc.

Matt Murray
Lineside Productions
[www.edgesportfishing.com]
Fishing videos, DVD Production, Websites and more.

pando, thats pretty f-ing cool!

I tried that Pando, Matt... good for personal use, no thanks for clients. It's just one more thing you have to get the client to download & install because you can't receive files unless you have it installed on your receiving machine - notification email says "You'll need Pando to open this attachment" and "free" is always trouble in the end - especially when you are dealing with paying clients. YouSendIt use to be for sending files up to a gig for free...now it's 100 megs max & it's $5 per month to send larger files. For $10 per month, I can have a ton more personal space. Imagine telling a client something WAS FREE and now it isn't? I think it's much more professional & very affordable to have your own space. Good luck with the "free" stuff.

I prefer to give the client as little to do as possible because most of them aren't technically savvy enough to work the remote on their VCR.

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Hi Matt,

Just downloaded Pando. Had the client download as well - Piece-O-Cake, works like a charm. Just what the DR. ordered. Thanks Bro!

Cheers,

Marc

Hey, folks-

Has anyone used a bundled satellite internet connection (like DirectTV, etcetera) with any success?

AT&T is getting me down...

Thanks.

tc

<<<Just downloaded Pando. Had the client download as well >>>

I can tell you don't have any clients that give you that "deer in the headlights" look when you say things like that. I have clients that can give me that look over the phone.

"I downloaded this "Pando" thing and now my spreadsheets won't open and my email is dead. What did *you* do to me?"

If you have to use the phrase: "If the client would just...." you are definitely doing it wrong.

Koz

Godaddy domain: $9.99
Godaddy hosting for unlimited domains: $7.99/mo

The appearance of professionalism and the security of "do-it-yourself": Priceless.



When I say unlimited, I mean it. 50 domains, all mirroring the same page? $7.99/mo. 50 domains, all with different content? $7.99/mo.

The best eight bucks I spend each month.

Hi Koz,

Thanks for your input. You, Joey, etc. are right, from a professionalism standpoint. The FTP/domain solution is the way to go particularly if one does alot of this. Right now the 3 hrs. that it will probably take me to get this up and tested I don't have. The Prado solution is perfect for "this" client. When I get a down day, I plan to call my hosting company (they provide all of this included in my web hosting agreement) and get it set up.

P.S. FYI- I tried the Sorensen3 idea you suggested but may not have rendered with the right options because the file that was originally 11 mg. in mpeg4 came out 19 mg. in Sorensen

Cheers,

Marc

<<<11 mg. in mpeg4 came out 19 mg. in Sorensen >>>

That's probably about right. MPEG4/H.264 are cousins of each other and they will mop the floor with Sorenson. Sorenson3 is probably the best of the older style compressors, the problem being that even slightly older machines will not know what to do with an MPEG4/H.264 video.

The official unanswerable question is: "How do I compress a video so it will open up on everybody's computer?" That's not one number. That's a series of overlapping circles.

Actually, the question from the point of view of the producer is: "I want to compress "War and Peace" to one byte and have it visible to all computers past, present, and future."

I'll have to work on that.

Correct me, but the MPEG4 export option will not allow you to produce a full size frame, right? The later H.264 will allow you to export anything right through HiDef.

Koz


Koz

Yeah...I have been experimenting with the simple QT H.264 export settings and have gotten WAY cleaner movies at smaller file sizes than any of my old sorensons. Only thing stopping me from converting all my web media is the compatibility issue. It just still seems that more folks can see Sorensons easier than H.264s.

- Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

ever since itunes came out on windows, QT player is WAY more penetrated into the windows world.
in 4 months, ive had 3 windows users tell me they cant see my movies... that way better than any other web video format ive applied

I have never had one person tell me they couldn't see my sorensons in 7 years. I like those odds a little better.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.