Did they leave off the QT MPEG2 codec in the 5.1.4 FCP Universal for the intel

I have the new intel tower desktop computer and I upgraded to the FCP 5.1.4 Universal so it would work but now in the QT conversion in FCP it does not give me the MPEG2 as a selection/option to export. Are they making me export using conversion to make this happen? I have in my library the QT MPEG2 but it is not anyplace where I can access it. On my FCP 5 the MPEG 2 is still there but not on the new QT 7 what's a person to do. Help Please.

<<<what's a person to do. Help Please.>>>

A person is supposed to convert to MPEG2 in either Compressor, or DVD Studio Pro which then calls Compressor later. It is stongly urged that you don't use Compressor Export inside Final Cut. That takes forever. Export as a Stand-Alone Final Cut Movie and drop that into Compressor. Or drop the movie directly into DVDSP and that will automatically run everything.

MPEG2 Export hasn't been available in either QuickTime or Final Cut since Panther and Final Cut 4.5 with QuickTime 6. That's one really big reason we still have a machine that didn't upgrade.

This is all for DVD encoding. You still can't make a stand-alone all-in-one Transport Stream MPEG2

Koz

How to make it a standalone FCP (is that a self contained movie)? What selection in Quicktime conversion must I export out as to come into compressor. I exported a 4 minute piece by exporting out to compressor then I converted to MPEG2 was I wrong?

Forgive my manners Koz thanks for the previous info

Export a QuickTime instead of QuickTime Conversion.

With a small project you may not notice all that much of a difference. With larger projects, you can retire to Boca Raton waiting for Compressor Export to run from Final Cut.

The up side is that Compressor is much more talented and accurate than MPEG2 Export was. We occasionally get hosed when MPEG2 Export can't handle a crossed television field. Compressor handles those just fine.

That and you can insert Compression Markers now to make the compression much more accurate and efficient.

Or you can just pick a preset and forget about it.

Remember the tradeoffs so you know what you're looking for in Quality Control. MPEG2 is a balance between great quality picture and great motion. It won't do both at once. If you try to jam too much video into a small file size or one single DVD, it won't do either one.

Koz

"It is stongly urged that you don't use Compressor Export inside Final Cut"

That's interesting! because no less than three different Apple video support "experts" have told me precisely the opposite within the last 36 hours. You're outnumbered 3 to 1 there Koz. If you're right, why are my company paying £500 per year for the privilege of having these Pro App people at the end of a phone line? Anbody else want to wade in on this debate?

Every Apple support person will tell you that because it's the company line. It's the approved method. Theoretically it will provide better results as it reads edit markers off the exported media. The problem is both applications have to be open and Compressor has to get its information for what frame to encode from the other application. It slows the process down enormously, probably will double the compression time in some instances. When this workflow first came out a number of users tested this pretty thoroughly and found no discernible qualitative difference in Compressor's output if the export was done from within FCP or if a separate file was exported and that brought into Compressor. It was however, much much faster to do a QuickTime Movie export and use that in Compressor than it was to encode directly from FCP using export with Compressor.

I concur...

Export a reference or (better still) a standalone movie from FCP then use that in compressor - far less issues.

The bonus - if you have a multiprocessor Mac you can continue to use FCP whilst its compressing.

Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

> That's interesting! because no less than three different Apple video support "experts" have
> told me precisely the opposite within the last 36 hours. You're outnumbered 3 to 1 there
> Koz.

And those Apple experts are outnumbered about 50 to 1 in here.

Export Using Compressor ties up FCP unnecessarily. I've used it before, but only when I had nothing else I needed to do with FCP and wanted to save the disk space from not exporting a self-contained movie file.

And then there's the matter of flexibility. Exporting a movie file first will allow you to move from station to station with great ease. Also, there are frequent reports of Compressor producing an unusable MPEG-2 (I've had it twice -- perfectly good Uncompressed 10-bit SD movie files turning to horizontally banded garbage once put through Compressor). Doing a movie file first allows you to make the DVD without having to do the MPEG-2, if necessary.


www.derekmok.com

And, to bring this around, all of these Compressor jobs are slower and with no visible increase in quality--last we checked--than doing it the old way:

<<<MPEG2 Export hasn't been available in either QuickTime or Final Cut since Panther and Final Cut 4.5 with QuickTime 6. That's one really big reason we still have a machine that didn't upgrade. >>>

Koz

I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring here too. Export a ref movie and have Compressor compress in the background. Again...same reason...you can continue working in FCP and the quality is no different.

Realize that everyone in here has the benefit of real life experience with this product...typically Apple employees don't.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Thanks everyone.
You'll have noticed that in my previous post i put the word apple "experts" in exclamation marks suspecting they might not be the font of all wisdom they're supposed to be. This site, on the other hand, has never let me down.
However, i was also told that one of the benefits of Compressor was the ability to swap aiif audio for Dolby by doing the following:

export from Compressor
use the Quality DVD less than 90 mins setting
choose All
which gives you the opportunity of keeping either the AIF or the Dolby(or both)
This seemed like a good idea.

Now i'm slightly confused and tomorrow morning i have to make a DVD which is being replicated by 3000 so its farly important that its the best i can get it.

Let me just get this straight:

1) export as Quicktime movie
2) import into DVD Studio Pro (which makes use of compressor in the background does it not?)
I've been doing this for months with good results but this project is the final master copy so if there's any way of improving it i'd like to know ASAP please.

BTW, I could write a book about the trials and tribulations i've had with the apple Video Support people. Generally speaking i'd rather come here, but my boss paid these guys for a year and we want our moneys worth. The question is, ARE WE GETTING IT ?

Thanks as always

Dom

Because DVDSP treats audio separately from video you'll want to do two things.

First, when Shane says "in the background" he means (I think) to use Compressor to make your mpeg2 and audio while you continue doing stuff in FCP or whatever. The Export to Compressor method ties up both FCP and Compressor/Batch Monitor.

If this release is going to be replicated you'll probably not want to entrust the mpeg encoding to the defaults in DVDSP.


For audio
Make an AC3. Just do it. An AC3 technically is compressed audio data and less than full PCM 48Khz/16bit Aiffs, BUT Aiffs are also high bitrate and that poses a problem. Not all DVD players can handle high bitrates of video and audio. Reducing the amount of data in the pipeline the goal. The amount of space the AC3 takes up is also a fraction of the AIFF.

If you've bought a professional DVD of your favourite TV show or movie on DVD you've probably heard a variation of AC3 compression.


So...
export as Quicktime movie
import into compressor
choose setting for mpeg
choose setting for AC3
render
import files into DVDSP
design your DVD
Burn your DAT
send to Replication

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

"BTW, I could write a book about the trials and tribulations i've had with the apple Video Support people. Generally speaking i'd rather come here, but my boss paid these guys for a year and we want our moneys worth. The question is, ARE WE GETTING IT ?"

-That depends on where you are and what apple people you are using.
Here in Australia the people that are actually employed by apple are not the best to speak to regarding FCP or DVDSP etc. They may be useful when trying to find out why your computer is not starting etc.
And if you call them you sometimes end up in India where some dude on the other end is
flipping though the user manual and asking you what "canvas" means.

It is understandable since they pay their employees nada, and to get an expert in Final Cut would cost a lot more than AUS$20/hour.

Realising this was useless we went to an apple retailer "powermedia" that specialises in Final Cut. They have been phenomenal. They know shitloads and they even come up to our office once in a while when we have a crisis.
For free.

Johan Polhem
Motion Graphics
www.johanpolhem.com

<<<Now i'm slightly confused and tomorrow morning i have to make a DVD which is being replicated by 3000 so its farly important that its the best i can get it. >>>

Let me read this back to you:

Tomorrow I'm going to author a DVD that will be duplicated to 3000 copies, so I'm doing everything in my power to change the pipeline, process, and tools that I have been accustomed to using in order to make the possibility of error go way up.

Did I get that right?

Koz

My experience is akin to Johan's. I've found all Apple personnel I've ever interacted with to be dizzyingly unfamiliar with exactly what problems day-to-day editors face. There might be good ones out there who know digital editing, but most of them are computer cats.

And Koz is right -- if you have a deadline, this is not the time to muck with settings. You could end up slaving for hours with no usable results, let alone better quality.

If you want maximum quality, get a pro to do it. You can't really get to that level as a hobbyist or part-timer. If you're still unsure about which settings to use the day before your deadline for delivery, then I see a problem.


www.derekmok.com

Thanks Andrew. Followed your list and it went off to the duplication house all Hunky Dory.
Much appreciated.
D

Now thats done - get to testing some settings in compressor versus DVDSP and see the speed and quality for yourself!

Nothing like personal experience to guide you next time around.

Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Since all the experts (no quote marks) are in one place, I have a mid-air question. It's possible not to use Compressor at all. Correct me, but it's possible to dump a self-contained movie directly into DVDSP and the compression will happen automatically--we assume DVDSP either calls Compressor, or works directly with the QuickTime tools.

How do I set the compression? Let's assume I know exactly the bit rate, passes, and sound I want. How do I display or change the "direct to DVDSP" compression settings?

Even more fuzzy, I place compression markers into my show in Final Cut, right? Oddly enough, I know exactly where to put those since that's an engineering problem. Do those markers follow me through the Direct To DVDSP Method?

Remember, I'm not and never claimed to be an editor.

Koz

Koz,

"It's possible not to use Compressor at all. Correct me, but it's possible to dump a self-contained movie directly into DVDSP and the compression will happen automatically."

Thats precisely what i've been doing for the last eight months, and i was told by one of the video support guys that compressor does the encoding for DVDSP whether you like it or not. The only reason i started using compressor (knowingly) was because the same people told me that ideally i should export to compressor from FCP, which is how i got involved in this discussion in the first place i recall.

Ben,
I have been experimenting quite a lot. I came over to the mac from prem pro some months ago and have never had any problems burning DVDs. After the horrors of adobe media encoder it was a joy to work with.
It was only because i was sending something for mass duplication that i wanted to check that i was in fact making the most of the tools at my disposal.
Last Friday i rang the Apple Video Support people for their advice. One Irish Apple Vid support guy told me to go to DVDSP prefs and crank up the bitrate for higher quality while checking the box background encode which makes compressor (or whatever) encode while you're doing menus etc. After ten minutes encoding it packed up and a warning popped up to say the bitrate was too high. I rang the Apple genius' back and got an indian guy this time who contradicted the previous guy, reccomending i did not bump up the bitrate, but gave me some interesting info on using compressor to dump the AIFF file and use the AC3 option instead which seemed like a sensible move. On Saturday i rang the number again from my home phone and got redirected to the States where i got a bloke who didn't find it necessary to leave me listening to music for ten minutes while he checked his manual. This is a first.
On Sunday I came on to this site and was told, re exporting from compressor, that the apple video support people were full of you know what.
Still it's been an interesting experience, and after adobe media encoder things can only get better.
When i was younger i believed Godard's maxim that "All you need to make a movie is girl and a gun".

AHH.. the innocence of youth!

The reason you had "bitrate was too high" was because your Video and Audio total datarate should not exceed 9Mbps for SD DVD playback

If you have PCM & AC3 tracks and/or Multiple Video Track then you need to divide the total rate between them all and I believe any subtitle tracks too.

As a basic I use 6.5Mbps CBR for video with a PCM Stereo Audio track, encoded directly in DVDSP.

If the vision is fast paced or high detail I may go as high as 7 to 8Mbps and use an AC3 Dolby Track as it uses a lower bitrate allowing more for video and compress this in compressor.


Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

I just read through this entire string and found it enormously helpful.... however...

Should I export a QT movie before the compressor step or should I export a Final Cut Pro Movie?

Final Cut Pro movie is FCP 3.0 terminology. It doesn't exist anymore. You need to export as a Quicktime movie, NOT Quicktime conversion. Self contained, or no...doesn't matter.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Final Cut Pro movie is FCP 3.0 terminology.

For good reason (as I'm sure you know.) It was confusing to many.

- Justin Barham -

> Should I export a QT movie before the compressor step or should I export a Final Cut Pro
> Movie?

"Final Cut Pro Movies" back in the day were QuickTime movies. The only difference was which application was set as default to open the file. If you had selected a "Final Cut Pro Movie" in OS, pressed APPLE-I, and then chosen "QuickTime Player, the icon would change and it became a plain old QuickTime movie.

It's also been mentioned in here that Compressor is simply another way to access QuickTime's codecs, not a self-contained and distinct set of tools.

The difference between encoding in DVD Studio Pro vs. Compressor?

The pros of using Compressor:

a) Long-term speed. Using Compressor to make an MPEG-2 first makes the DVD Studio Pro Build/Format steps very, very fast. Last I tested this, it was slightly faster to use Compressor first.

b) You can batch-convert different versions of one file at the same time in Compressor.

c) More choices in the compression.

d) You can use Compressor to make non-DVD-related media, such as web clips.

e) You can save on storage -- if you're only delivering on DVD, then you don't need to create or maintain a full-quality movie file. Just keep the MPEG-2s and AC3/AIFF files.

The cons of using Compressor:

a) It is very slow for certain operations.

b) At least three people in here (myself included) have found a Compressor bug where your self-contained movie file looks perfect, both in computer and on an external monitor viewed via Final Cut, but once the movie file is sent through Compressor and then DVDSP, the resulting DVD has completely screwed up cadence and can't be used. But the self-contained movie file imported into DVD Studio Pro resulted in a perfect DVD.


www.derekmok.com

One thing we do is export our 10 bit movies as Quicktime; as recommended here
(LAFCPUG) and then use Sorensen Squeeze to create the mpg for DVD Studio Pro.

To comment late on last year's strand. At issue is the way to make the best MPEG-2 compression with our tools. The strand doesn't support its title. It doesn't show that using Compressor export inside FCP is acually bad, that it yields inferior quality versus using Compressor outside FCP on an exported Quicktime file. The strand only supports, by impression after impression, that the MPEG-2 gotten the first way is no better or worse than the MPEG-2 gotten the second way, and it takes longer. Apple's recommendation to use the Compressor export inside FCP seems to be based purely on a theoretical advantage, and the theoretical advantage seems to be negligibly small. In such a case I'd follow the Apple recommendation. I can spare a couple of hours and maybe, just maybe, there's a slim visual advantage, maybe with just some combinations of effects.
To decide empirically whether method A yields better pictures than method B requires lots of samples and lots of observers. No one's about to do all that, so give theory a chance.