HD Format recommendation?

Hi guys n gals

I have a client who wants to shoot a high end corporate in a remote area. The final duration will be about 5 minutes, but the director comes from a much higher spec world, so I'm a bit worried that there will be basically a documentary length shoot required.

They want to shoot in 'HDTV'. They want to do a lot of funky colour correction. It will mostly be interviews and overlay. As far as I know, not a lot of high action overlay, but I can't be sure what they actually have in mind yet. Probably very large machinery in action will be involved.

I was going to push them down the HVX path, but the 'remote documentary' possibility worries me with no power and those little p2 cards.

What do you recommend for this situation? Not sure what the delivery will be at this stage, just not theatre release.

the p2 hvx thing really shouldnt be an issue.

as long as you have a few charged batteries and somthing to dump the cards to (id suggest a powerbook - WAY cheaper than a p2 store) and an assistant to dump cards while you continue shooting. or maybe a firestore if you know youll have single shots that will last longer than 10 min or so.

The P2 Store is pretty slick though...put the card in and press a button, then another to erase. And you can attach it to your belt.


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So the CC will be fine? Also, this is a new company so for sure they are going to want to start an archive to chart their growth. What do you guys archive to?

i dont know why cc would be any kind of issue. everything i do HVX wise gets dumped to its own project drive and that drive gets shelved at the end of the project. done. if the client wants, i dupe that drive and give them one.

There are new Sony cameras now (if the Sony 900 is too extravagant), so you should recommend a Sony HD camera.

The Sony HVR Z1U would be a great camera also for this project because it shoots PAL as well as DVCAM.

I don't suppose they will be whipping the camera around, are they? I'm sure they'll be using a tripod, so artifacts shouldn't pose a problem. Of course, with extensive color correction they probably need a 4:2:2 capable camera I suppose.

Good luck with the assignment.

Currently I archive to bare SATA drives that I connect to my computer via a USB>SATA cable ($15, www.geeks.com) and put them on a shelf. 250GB for $80. 4 drives thus far for 2 projects. I'll back up to Blue-Ray or HD-DVD, when prices get reasonable.


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Oh, and color correction is fine. the 4:2:2 of DVCPRO HD is great. I have used the 3-way color corrector in the past, and plan on using Colorista on the current project. Of course going Uncompressed would be better, but I am planning on playing with color correction in After Effects to see how the result differs.

We output DVCPRO HD directly to HDCAM, cross converting 720p to 1080p via the Kona 3.


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Shane,

Here I am clunking these SATA drives in and out of some archaic firewire enclosure with (approximately) a million hex screws... and you've got a CABLE that will connect straight to the computer via USB2? Yowza! I'll take one! That's the greatest thing I've seen all day!

Yup...

[www.geeks.com]


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I second that SATA cable - awesome. Gonna try and find one locally in Australia..

This might sound archaic, but in an extreme location situation I'd shoot Super16 or 35mm. A film kit is a lot more robust for that kind of thing. Iffy power supplies and no tech support for the equivalent in finicky and sensitive video gear are not an issue.

More expensive? Sometimes not if it saves you travelling and lodging extra video crew and gear with the backups you'll need to keep yourself and the insurance people happy. I'd bet that the extra costs only involve processing. Usually not a deal-breaker once you present the pros and cons to the client.

Better image quality? No question. Do a one-light telecine transfer to HD, and then edit and grade in whatever you want plus keep all the material archived on neg. Your director will be much happier, and the client will certainly get the high-end look they're after.

Clay

ClayC,

Even a film camera requires power (unless you're talking an old Bolex).

Tech support? Same issue for a film camera. If it breaks (either camera) you're hosed. Sensitive video gear? You may not want to pound nails with it, but last time I checked, most video gear was up to the challenge of extreme location shooting.

Extra video crew? Come on. You're thinking "video village". He's talking about a "documentary style shoot". Who are the extra crew for that?

Processing? Uh, what about transfer, syncing, and the cost differential for raw stock. Oh, and in a documentary setting, isn't the ability to roll more than 12 minutes a good thing?

Image quality? Perhaps. But it doesn't sound like they're making "Lawrence of Arabia II".

Suggesting a film origin for anything other than very specific situations (timelapse, high budget dramas, etc) just doesn't make sense.

mark

I would've suggested it, but I'm glad Clay did.

Since it's only a five minute product, 35mm is a wonderful suggestion.

Take an Arri BL as the main camera and an Arri 2c for back-up, second unit and handheld.

The 1000 ft mag gives you eleven minutes of running time.

Processing is at 10 cents per foot. Work print will cost you 19 cents per foot. Is there a DeLuxe Lab near you? Tell 'em Vic sent you :-)

Cut down your work print on an Upright Moviola or a flatbed (Steenbecks and Kems can be found anywhere).

Reduce the footage down to about 10 minutes, then telecine to HD or whatever you want.

One hour of telecine will be enough most likely. How much they're going to charge you, a $1,000 ? It's worth it.

If the BL breaks down, okay, there aren't as many camera operators and DPs nowadays who can repair it, but there are some.

You still have the Arri 2c, and just about anybody can repair a 2c in the field should a boulder accidentally fall on it.

I've used an Arri 2c in an S120 Blimp that was hit by a Mercedes Benz that went out of control (in the Fall there were leaves on the road), and nothing happened to it. We sent for a spare camera, but continued shooting with the camera, and later found that the Arri didn't sustain any damage and didn't need any repairs.

Repairing video cameras in the field? Can you repair a video camera in the field if you drop it? If it malfunctions under hot sun conditions or in humid environments?

I won't tell you how much better the 35mm film looks, because that gets some people livid :-)

> Cut down your work print on an Upright Moviola or a flatbed (Steenbecks and Kems can be
> found anywhere).
> Reduce the footage down to about 10 minutes, then telecine to HD or whatever you want.

Are you frickin' kidding me?


www.derekmok.com

Mark,

Just playing devil's advocate here, but seriously;

Jude says we're talking "high end corporate in a remote area" and with a director who "comes from a much higher end spec world". Thus the thought that for a 5 minute piece, film would be the best way to go. 16mm can also be very cool for the interview stuff if you mix it together with 35 for the beauty shots.

What Vic said, plus for power, all they'd need is small standby gennie to charge batteries in a pinch.

P2 vs. 35 plus far better optics? Yes, the difference will be immense.

Clay

Vic...sorry man, I'm with Derek. That is a VERY old workflow, and will be anything BUT cheaper than shooting HD outright. And I mean GOOD HD, not HDV (although I consider the XL H1 great HDV).


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I love the smell of celluloid in the morning.... kinda smells like..... victory.


To carry the metaphor further, unlike Kurtz, I know when it's pointless to pursue a lost cause. I ain't arguing my POV any more. No winning any hearts and minds here.

Mark

I suspect it?s futile, but just because lost causes are near and dear to my heart?.

I don?t think the case for either is as clearcut as might be imagined. For a hint of this I?d point to the number of series and MOWs that are still shot on film- a suprisingly large number. And I?ll bet you can find a whole lot of AC?s who?d say ?shoot it on film? without hesitation if posed the dilemma.

The devil is in the details?

First, how remote is ?remote?? AND is there power? AND how long are you out there for? AND how are you getting back and forth? IE: are you staying out there for the duration? I ask because the longer you?re out in the boonies with no AC power, the more comforting it is to have a setup where you can look through the viewfinder to your hearts content all day without chewing through your (limited) battery supply.

Second, in terms of economics, how high end is ?High End? and how exalted is your director? If he/she isn?t going to want to deign to look through the viewfinder of anything ?lesser? than a Varicam or even an HDX900, you can rent a Super16 package, and shoot and transfer a suprising amount of footage before it starts to add up to the daily rental rate of a higher end HD package- never mind all the batteries if you?re stuck out there for a number of days?.

Robustness and number of crew I don?t think applies- video can be plenty robust, and any kind of film camera is gonna need a Camera Assistant/Loader, whereas HD may (may!) not?(I?m assuming a PA/sherpa type for both?)

35 synch I think is out- you?ll need a mule train, never mind extra crew, just to get the package there and set up, but 35 MOS or Super16 synch might just work.

The other thing that might work, if they really want to go town with interviews and such, is to split the difference, and shoot the beauty shots on film and the talking head stuff on an HD minicam. I?ve seen this done on SD and it worked a treat- HD would work even better?.

Great discussion, though?

randy

all this yappin about film... if jude doesnt have experience with film, istnt really really BAD ADVICE to suggest a whole new medium???

If she's shooting it, absolutely. Mea culpa. I apologise. (I was presuming a crew...)

randy

LOL. Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. We've decided to take a slightly simpler path than the flatbed and drag a team of artists into the desert and make them paint every scene by hand. Should look fabulous.

I'm not shooting BTW. Absoultely hopeless on camera, me.

Thank you, Jude, I'm glad you decided to take the simpler path ...

Er, what is the simpler path for HD?

There is HD and then there's HDV. Which did the team take?

Or perhaps they decided not to shoot Hi Def at all?