P2 back-up/archiving soltuions...???

Anyone have good solutions for backing up their P2 media after a project has been completed?


We're looking into using LT03 tape but then we have the issue of do we back up the original .mxf files AND the quicktime .mov that were created in FCP?

Ideally we'd like to intergrate Final Cut Server when it's released. Yet we're not sure if when you back up to LT03 tape and remove the media from the server if FCS still keeps a place marker and let's you search for the archived footage, then informing you it's backed up on a specific LT03 tape at whcih point you can insert the tape to retrieve the file. Thus allowing us to search the metadata for ALL our footage and not just for the footage that is online.

Then we reach the problem of do we just back up the .mov files or also the .mxf? (we recently had a case where all our back-up footage went corrupt and we had to re-import from the original .mxf files which thankfully we had on external drives- however the amount of drives is getting ridiculously high). Since we can't offline our P2 footage we also have to deal with a lot of files with large files sizes since it's a documentary styled show.

Would backing up to HD tapes be suitable? I'd imagine not because then you lose you individual clip names thus making a re-connect almost impossible. Also P2 is a compressed HD format so would backing-up to a full res HD tape even be suitable? Or is there another tape format that's appropriate for backing up the P2's HD DVCPRO 720p footage?

It seems as though the whole reason for switching to P2 was to avoid tape but do we now need to back up our P2 on tape, be it HD CAM or LT03 anyway? Why not have just shot on tape to begin with?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

I buy bare internal 250 GB hard drives and copy to them. I have a $30 SATA to USB device that I got from OWC that I use to hook it to my computer. Back them up, wrap them in plastic and put them on the shelf. $80 for 250GB.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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Thanks but that's what we're trying to avoid is shelves full of hard drives. We currently have about 13 externals (ranging from 350-2TB drives) for back-up and it's getting rather cumbersome, so we're looking into alternate solutions.

Also we want nyone using Final Cut Server to be able to search all our media, even stuff on the shevles that's not online, and find any B-roll etc... that may be relevent and be able to located and re-import it easily.

Are you backing up your .mxf files or your .mov files? We had a recent incident where the editor backed-up the media to an external Lacie 1TB drive then striped our RAIDS hosting the orginal media (dumb I know but they wouldn't listen). Then when he went back to transfer the footage from the Lacie to the RAIDS the footage was corrupted and we had to re-import it, but luckily we still had our .mxf files.
(originally posted about here: [www.lafcpug.org] )

We're shooting a documentary styled tv series in 720p60p mode with two HVX cameras and the footage is adding up. We're expanding to additional editing bays and want to host all the current media on a server so that any editing bay may access it.

Don't want them on shelves? Get a 10 drive drive case...like a burly from Macgurus.com. Then you can have them all at your beck and call.

I archive my MXF files...not the imported clips.

Oh...SHARED storage? Then you need Fibrechannel and SAN software. NOT cheap.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Mrshow,

Other back up options: Blue RAY DVDs used as "data discs".

Copy to digibeta? Not very efficient, but it would work.

LTO drives mxf only. For back up, saving the Quicktime seems redundant.

Buy larger drives so you have less of them. 750 gigs are now pretty cheap.

Mark

well we really want to have shared storage for the current media but any old media that may be relevant we'd like to be backed up somewhere off the server, but still able to be searched for in Final Cut Server (assuming it can do that) where FCS will probably find the files based on a metadata search and say something to the extent of: "File offline, backed-up to LT03 tape #001"

Basically we like what the Focus PX-1 can do as far as back-up cataloging and the ability to search for files that you sent to LT03 tape. The downside to the PX-1 is that each editor has to download the media off the server to their editing bay and doesn't allow you to edit off the server the way you would be able to if you used the Fibre cards and Final Cut Server etc...

[www.focusinfo.com]

i'll post a detailed update if we find a solution

Yes, please let me know when you find it!

mark

Shane,

how long does it take to tranfer material via the sata to usb device you mention?

Do you do a double back-up of the mxf files *while* you are editing?

I?ll be receiving mxf files in small amounts over a period of a month, enough to fill a couple of 250gb hdds; should I just back-up daily to the plugged hdd (thus either plugging/unplugging it daily, or leaving it exposed on the table), or should I just put the files on an external hdd until I have enough to fill the back-up drives (and thus plugging it only once)?

Plus, wouldn?t it be better to have the mxf files on a fast firewire external drive just while editing, so I wouldn?t have to take the internal hdds out of the shelf and plug it again if I should need the original mxf files? Or is that too much caution?

mrshow555 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well we really want to have shared storage for the
> current media but any old media that may be
> relevant we'd like to be backed up somewhere off
> the server, but still able to be searched for in
> Final Cut Server (assuming it can do that) where
> FCS will probably find the files based on a
> metadata search and say something to the extent
> of: "File offline, backed-up to LT03 tape #001"


Maybe this is completely off base, but a couple of suggestions. When working with P2 instead of ingesting directly, I create a disk image of the card for storage on an offline drive. Then when I'm ready to ingest, I mount the image and suck it into FCP into a bin named after the card.

Now applied to your problem: Create disk images of your P2 cards on an external/offline drive. Create a P2 project on your local server so you can create a logging database. Mount P2 disk images (cards) locally one at a time and ingest into logging bins named after each card. Fill in all your logging data and ingest the footage. Once your files are logged into the database you can delete the source files for the clips on your local server knowing that you have an archive of the P2 disk image on your offline drive/raid/whatever. Now you are left with a local server which has a logged database of all the clips you want and is organized by the source card with none of the actual media stored locally. When you are in need of footage you could search your database for the clips you want and when you find it just mount the specified P2 image and ingest that footage directly from the offline media.

I have not personally created an entirely offline database like this in FCP, but it seems feasible. If you wanted an extra state of redundancy you could as someone else suggested make DVD's or Blu-Ray backups of your archived disk images, but 1TB LaCie's are only $399 now. It would be a lot less headache to have a shelf of a few harddrives then taking the time to burn everything to disk.

Michael Horton
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