FCP 6 XML disaster

Well, a word of warning, for whatever it's worth. I recently upgraded to Final Cut 6, cut a project, and sent an XML out to an FCP online house for conforming. They could not read it using Final Cut 5.1.4. They conformed using the EDL instead, which was spotty in it's effectiveness. I chalked it up to circumstance, but when the project was subsequently brought to a color correction house, they couldn't read the XML that FCP 6 output either, causing much sturm und drang today.

I opened the XML inside Final Cut 6 after I exported it. All was fine. However, if this case is an indication, it appears that FCP 6 XML's cannot be read by earlier versions, or at least 5.1.4. (P.S., this was the most recent format of XML, I believe it is format 3)

Big, embarrassing ouch.

Any other corroborating or non-corroborating experiences?

It's always been the case that when a new XML format is introduced, the previous versions of FCP are unable to read it. For that reason, on the XML export window, there's a version number popup menu that allows you to choose an earlier XML version that will be compatible.

So the most recent version of XML is v4, introduced with FCP6. It's the default setting so your file would not be readable by FCP5.1.4, that only handles XML v1, v2 and v3.

The bad news is, if you'd exported as XML v3, your online house would have been able to open the file in FCP5.1.4.

Martin Baker
[www.digital-heaven.co.uk]
Unique plug-ins and tools for Apple Pro Apps

What he said.

What version XML did you export? Can you send it to me to have a gander? I'd like to take a crack at it. If it is XML v3 or v2 or v1.

comeback@mac.com


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Aaaargh. Okay, RANT ON...


Is this not the point of XML, that it can be read like an EDL (with more info), without having to go through opening a Final Cut project?

It is astonishing to me that XML export formats are not backwards compatible AT ALL.

The @$#!# thing is called "XML INTERCHANGE FORMAT". As in, interchanging with other systems. A new XML format should be readable by older programs, they just won't get the benefits of the new format.

Why even have XML? If you need the exact same version of the exact same program to read it, then it's just a less informative version of a project file.

Oh, and here's an idea for the geniuses at Final Cut - maybe put a marker in the drop-down that tells you exactly which revision of the *@$! program will read which format.

Could you imagine other documents having this restriction? "Oh, which version of Photoshop was this .jpeg made in? Yeah, you can only display this photo if you have V6.4.3." "Sorry, I can't open that AfterEffects file, you don't have EXACTLY the same version I do."

Festering.


End Rant.


P.S. Thank you both for your help

Dear "Festering",

You can rant all you want, but the fact is, you didn't ask your on-line house what version of FCP they were running BEFORE you upgraded. Therefore, you upgraded too soon and now you're in this mess. Frankly, I would let the on-line house figure it out if they want your business.

Incompatability between versions is a fact of life in this business. Always has been... always will.

Mark

Dear "Mark",

Incompatibility in a dedicated EXCHANGE format is not just stupid, it's negating the entire point.

If XML can be read ONLY by the exact same version - of the exact same program - then, please tell me, what exactly is the "exchange"?

Thanks for the life lesson, though.

If you want something that is always read by all forms of NLE and other equipment, you have your answer already, EDLs.
They were great once, amazing even, and they never changed much or evolved or anything. Years later, they still do what they were designed to do.
Problem is, everything else changed. Since the invention of EDLs we've had Beta, and all the formats that came after, digital switchers, NLEs, and everything else. EDLs never evolved to be of any use other than edits, reels and time code.

I think you have a point that there should be more "exchange" flexibility built into XML variations but I also want the format to be able to grow and adapt to whatever magic the engineers and designers have up their sleeves.

Mark is also right that if you are paying the big bucks at an online facility and at a colourist and you don't spend the short amount of time to dump out every version of XML there is, and test all your workflow, you are asking for trouble. I always sent CMX and Sony EDLs to new post houses.
Stop counting on names and signs to be your only source of info and most of all don't trust anything you read in a brochure or trade magazine.
Prove it to yourself, prove it to the boss, then prove it to the world.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Dear "Mark",

What...are you insinuating that he isn't really Mark? That's rich.

If XML can be read ONLY by the exact same version - of the exact same program - then, please tell me, what exactly is the "exchange"?

You are misreading and misinterpretting what was said. You can export an XML from FCP 6 that can be opened by earlier versions. You just need to make sure that the XML type you choose is supported by that version of FCP. XML v3 came out AFTER FCP 4.5 was released, so FCP 4.5 cannot read that format. XML v1 and v2 will work with that version. XML v3 is what works with 5.1...so just export that version and you should be fine.

CMX3600...a standard EDL format. Will not work on machines made BEFORE CMX3600 came about.

So if you export an XML, v1 or 2...that will work on ANY version of FCP after 4.5. Bases covered.

"Shane"


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

I have no problem with them making advances in XML. But seriously, how hard is it to make the format so that other versions of Final Cut can at least OPEN the darn thing? When it comes down to it, it's mainly just ins and outs, reel numbers and dissolves.

Fortunately, I did include a good old fashioned CMX3600 edl. Of course, none of the moves and resizes came over. But at least it opened.

I suspect I won't be the only one who exports an XML at it's default setting, only to find out that 99.9 percent of Final Cut systems can't read it.

My .02 anyway.

>I have no problem with them making advances in XML. But seriously, how hard is it to make the format so that other versions of Final Cut can at least OPEN the darn thing? When it comes down to it, it's mainly just ins and outs, reel numbers and dissolves.

I can understand your aggravation and would also agree that some built-in logic to parse any FCP XML data structure for readable info would make sense. Sadly, as of FCP version 5.x, this doesn't exist ... who know's if it's in FCP6? I'm guessing not.

But FWIW, the whole point of the XML interchange is that "when it comes down to it" is so very very much more than "mainly" just ins and outs, reel numbers and dissolves. The data structure is far far more complex and contains and describes everything about your project / sequences / bins / clips.
As advances are made in the application itself, new features added, existing features tweaked and/or redesigned etc etc the manner by which the data is encapsulated in the XML structure needs to be updated too, to take advantage of those changes. Older versions of FCP can't read newer FCP project versions ... the same goes for the FCP XML's.
What Apple does offer is an easy way to export a project that project in a form that is readable, by manually selecting a compatible FCP XML version. Of course the default will be the latest version. That will be the only version that takes full advantage of all the latest functionality, but you can choose a version that is backwards compatible if you wish, although that XML, when opened in FCP 6 will not carry through any of those later advantages.

The bottom line, frustrations and venting aside, you need to know your NLE. You slipped up. We're all human (well, most of us) and this one wasn't Apple's fault. In future, just re-export to a compatible FCP XML format, zip it up, and email them the new file.

... and provide some feedback to Apple. Don't vent, just detail your feature request. Maybe ask that they provide a free FCP XML conversion utility with each new release of FCP, to allow users with older versions of FCP to down convert newer XML's

Hi Flashaba,

As I'm the man who probably did more with XML than anybody else - here some notes.

XML is damned cool and no other NLE app except FCP offers this feature. XML may also have a damned lot of problems if you're not knowing about the version.
So to go backwards select the version which fits the FCP version. A lot of stuff may won't show up hence the one or other new feature is not translatable to the elder version - so you have to know about the FCP versions and their features to make it work.

A Photoshop document from version 1 will open in the most actual version, but not the other way round.
A movie of whatever format (like jpeg) will open in any version of FCP.

So maybe you give us some more details and we're able to help.


Andreas