Apple Certification

Hi. I've looked through the archives, and didn't find an answer to this question, only on how worth it it is to get certified.

I'm looking to get certified on FCP, Level 1, without taking the class. I've had 2 semesters of college level training, and have edited over 20 projects. Will I have to study hard? Or are the questions based on techniques generally used in editing? (I do use a wide range of techniques.

Thanks

Study the book careful. If you don't know the answer to the question above, you're not ready. It's not an open book or open application test.

May I ask why you want to get certified?

-MW

This is being discussed over at Apple, and I think I opened a big can of worms over there. Read and judge for yourself:

[discussions.apple.com]


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Certification doesn't mean sh_t when applying for a job as an editor (at least in my world / market = Broadcast TV in Florida). When we hire people, we look at REELS. Not once did we ever ask for a "Certification" in FCP or AVID for either position. Anyone can push buttons via a certification. Timing, storytelling skills, an eye for QC and someone that can read a flippin' Waveform / Vectorscope is much more important that someone who "tests well". Look up some editing listings. Out of 100...I bet you won't find 10 that actually ASK for that silly piece of paper.

You can't get certified in "work ethic"...you learn by doing.

Certification: not worth it (IMHO)

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I've been editing for many years and I can tell you that you WILL gain something out of getting certified. If you are self-taught there are many tips and techniques you will glean by going through the process. It will make you a better editor. It certainly isn't a substitute for a great demo reel and reel world experience, but it is a worthwhile pursuit.

I'm relenting and thinking that it might be a fine idea. Because, yes, you find out things you might not know that FCP can do. And being certified, although it might not impress producers, it gives YOU a feeling of accomplishment. I know I had that when I was Avid Certified...and no, that wasn't really looked at either.

Heck, I went to college and not once am I asked to present my diploma. But, I learned something and I have a sense of accomplishment.

So there...this is me backpedalling and reallying thinking about it.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

When I got certified (!) I had the book open on the desk, FCP running on the same computer and the invigilator pointing us in the right direction for the answers. Certification means nothing.

6 months later I get an email to say my certification is for FCP5 only... I need to recertify for FCP6!

Funnily enough my certification meant nothing because I went straight in on a level 2 course - so my certification would only be valid in apple's eyes if I took the level 1 test too.... more $$$ for them.

Quote

This is being discussed over at Apple,

I love it when you get all elitist Shane...

Thats my take on things and my experience too.

I was going for certification but then realised it was pointless at present (seeing as I am such a FCS geek and have read the entire manual sets several times since version 1) unless I did it all the way up to "Grand Master of all things Applymedia" and at the moment I'm just too busy answering a demanding question on the LAFCPUG about the right way up to insert a FireWire cable to comprehend doing a test on the basic 3 point edit...

How's that Mr Ross? Do I get my goldsnobstar yet?



Seriously though, if you feel its going to help then go for it, being certified might just get you into places that someone without won't.

To my way of thinking its a good thing to learn as much about the tol you use as possible so as to get the best out of it.

Most of your work may come from repeat business or word of mouth, I would say at least 80% of mine is because they saw a programme I cut and/or was recommended by someone they knew.

The types of programme you cut can also affect your work requests, I personally try to do as many different genres as possible to keep me sharp and my work interesting. Plus it means that I'm not pigeonholed into "He's a doco editor" or "He only cuts features", etc, etc.


Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

i am certified level 1 since about 2003. there are definate benefits to being certified. maybe not in the broadcast world but definately as a freelancer. people will call you for classes that you can charge for. mostly because they saw your name on apples website.

when you are generating your own clients having your name on that list makes them more comfortable with the work they are about to pay you for.

you can carry the apple logo on any of your stationary further showing your a qualified editor.

i was trained by mary plummer ( http://www.invisiondigital.com/ )who has to be one of the best trainers out there. she was incredibly patient. she does her own project also so you get the benefit of light technics being taught also. having someone with a lot of experience train you will give you a much better grasp on workflow, tricks and tools.

i know you said that you have done 20 projects already so i would say that your are just now at the cusp of starting to explore fcps possibilities. tv and movie is starting to be a study for you. also you have done projects and have developed particular ways that you do things. some of the things you have become accustom to doing in fcp are text book and some are not. the ones that are not is where you will run into the problem at on the test.

On the test there are 100 questions multiple choice mostly about tools and technics. they are tricky. they may ask you a question that seems as though it has 3 right answers and in a lot of cases two of the answers will complete the function but only one is the most efficient or most common.
true and false question a definitely worded awkwardly. please learn all you can about slip and slide, TL & project settings, point editing and the uses of the different edits.

i will tell you this 25% of what you need to know you may never ever use. fcp level 2 is mostly technic so it is probably the best of the best classes. you get into reading color meters and the real geeky stuff.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

J.Corbett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> you can carry the apple logo on any of your
> stationary further showing your a qualified
> editor.
>
Sorry, but I fail to see how having an Apple logo on anything qualifies you as an editor. I know LOTS of people with Apple Logos on their card...doesn't mean they are good editors...


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Quote

i will tell you this 25% of what you need to know you may never ever use. fcp level 2 is mostly technic so it is probably the best of the best classes. you get into reading color meters and the real geeky stuff.

Um...that's what will get you hired over the next guy who can't do the "real geeky stuff". Reading "color meters" (Waveform / Vectorscope) is essential for color correcting and (even shane will agree) is not "geeky" and pretty darn important for a qualified editor to be able to do.

They don't call it "level 1" for nothing...if you're gonna start, you really should finish.

There are a lot of variables involved in this discussion. What is your market? What type of work do you do? Web Video? DV? HD? 2K? Film? Another thing...think about the term "Qualified Editor" for a minute. Just because a person knows the menus / layouts / codecs / etc does not make them "Qualified" to tell a story. I would take a verbal referral from shane, derek, nick, jude, mike or anyone I trust as experienced Editors over a random name off an Apple list of certificate holders any day of the week. This is still for the most part a "word of mouth" industry ("...it's not WHAT you know...it's WHO you know and WHO knows YOU". There's a lot of good editors out there. There's more bad ones than good. Not so much "bad"...just not experienced enough to handle a professional project from script to screen. Being "Certified" does NOT make a person an "Editor". You need to demonstrate your ability in a Demo Reel and be able to BREAK IT DOWN - SHOT FOR SHOT for anyone (Hiring Manager / Art Director / Creative Director / Executive Producer / Director) who asks about it. "Why did you choose that shot?" "Why did you use a speed effect there?" I remember my last interview...5 people in the room watched my demo 5 times and THEN stepped through it frame by frame asking questions. Does "Level 1 Certification" prepare you for that? It's not that simple...

...my 2¢

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I'm wanting to get certified, for a variety of reasons- I'm graduating from college next Spring, and entering into the market. I thought the certification may be helpful, in addition to a demo reel (that I'm pretty proud of- documentaries shot in 6 countries before I graduate) in landing a job.

So no, I'm not using it as a crutch to bypass actual experience and skills.

So I have logged more hours of tape than I'd like to remember, and can roll, ripple, and slide with the best of them.

I guess I'm just wondering if the test is on things like specific shortcuts, or if it is more general like reading the wave forms, etc.

In other words, if I have used FCP intensively, and have a well above basic understanding knowledge of the program, will I still have problems?
Thanks.

grafixjoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Reading
> "color meters" (Waveform / Vectorscope) is
> essential for color correcting and (even shane
> will agree) is not "geeky" and pretty darn
> important for a qualified editor to be able to
> do.
>
If you are cutting for content only (creative cutting, offline cutting) this isn't an essential skill. In fact, MOST editors I know don't know this stuff. They don't do the online and color correct...that is left to ANOTHER professional called the COLORIST or ONLINE EDITOR. I know this stuff because I happen to have been an online editor for a couple years. I can make the image look pretty. But when it comes to really adding good color correction and a style, I'd farm out to a colorist every time.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Shane,

Agree...an online editor would have to know that as I too an an Online Editor.

Disagree...that it is not an essential skill. It depends on where you work and what your market dictates you have to do. I mentioned above that your market dictates the experience you should strive to attain. Maybe some of you are in LA where most specialize. I swear I didn't know there was an individual job description "Offline Editor" until I started looking for work in LA & NYC. In my market, I am what they call a "one man band" (I do basically 3 to 4 person's jobs). I get a script, do the offline (roughcut) for approval, uprez, color correct / treat, graphics / vfx treatments, finishing. If it's a quick turnaround (which is at least once a week), I will also do the sound mixing & sound design as well otherwise it goes out to the Audio Department.

Not that anyone is wrong in this discussion...there's just lots of variables here...there is no standard, IMHO.

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

The bottom line here after reading this thread and trying to summarize is that getting certified is NOT a bad idea NOR anything that will get you the job. For that matter a demo reel won't get you the job either, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea or you should have one handy. I've never met an editor who got hired based on his/her demo reel. How the heck can one tell by looking at a demo reel? No wait, I do know of one. He had a TV show on the reel that the producer liked and just happened to know the producer of that show so he calls the producer and asks, if this guy is any good, and the producer says hell yes, so the fellow gets the job. It was for a low budget feature.

What gets you the job more often than not is "who you know" and who loves your work and who is willing to step up and tell the right person about you.

Same thing with any profession you want to get into. No secrets here. You got talent and are fun to hand with then you will not be denied. Just got to meet and work for the right people. That is where luck comes in.

As that mythical wise man said, "Luck = Preparation + Opportunity."

Michael Horton
-------------------

Michael Horton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never met an
> editor who got hired based on his/her demo reel.
> How the heck can one tell by looking at a demo
> reel?

Sure you do...ME. I was hired on two jobs based on my demo reel. What happened is they saw the reel, then they wanted to meet me. The purpose of the meeting? To get to know me personally. See if they can stand to be around me for 5-12 weeks. I do know a lot of editors who get jobs because the are good people and easy to be around. I know skilled editors who don't get work because they are complete asses.

But you are right, ALL the rest were recommendations or word of mouth and reputation based. But when you run out of recommendations, you go with the demo reel. Which is what happened in my case.

> What gets you the job more often than not is "who
> you know" and who loves your work and who is
> willing to step up and tell the right person about
> you.

This happens SO much. A producer liking an editor and taking them wherever they go. I work with about 5 producers and companies, and I swear I see the same 15 editors all the time. One producer left to do his own show, and snagged me and 4 other editors I know from various places. And I have gotten calls based on "Hey, Mike said you were good..."


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

IMHO, scepticism expressed in this thread about certifications reflects the cottage-industry character of a lot of creative work.

That could change.

If you look at other industries, standards are a key part of the game these days, from apparel to health care. There is even a set of standards for management, admittedly more popular in Europe than the US, viz. the ISO 9000 series.

Even in creative industries today, there are standards that are highly credible, though not compulsory. A hundred years ago, someone running a school for creative writing would have been condemned as a crook. Today you can do a university degree in the subject

Something that could provoke a major change in perceptions of Apple certifications could be a move to certify businesses, not just individuals.

This could be very attractive to creative businesses seeking outside equity, or even a loan from the bank (look at this impressive certificate from Apple!). It could be quite attractive to Apple in a number of ways, not the least being the audit fees - typically high for standards compliance.

The downside, or upside, depending on where you stand, could be that complying businesses would be inclined only to employ people who passed Apple's tests for individuals.

Apple does certify business. Since the beginning of time Apple has required training facilities to be certified before they could hang that shingle. VARS too. It's big bucks also.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Quote

I've never met an editor who got hired based on his/her demo reel.

Hi...me too. Both full time staff gigs I got out of film school was because of my Demo (going on 8 years now). It was the reel that got me through the door...and the rest was up to me. Like Mike says...you have to have a personality that people want to be around. We work long hours and collaborate everyday. You end up being around these coworkers sometimes more than your own family so there are a lot of personal variables that come into play. We laugh out loud all day long in the Grafix Department. I have seen more talented editors / designers get fired because they were "sour pusses" & jeopardized the chemistry in the shop. The gig I have now is so solid...you would literally have to stab someone to get fired...OR...just be difficult to work with.

What I learned from school was more than just "post production" & "the gear"...it was NETWORKING is KING and don't burn any bridges (I actually learned that studying Acting for 9 years before that). Do a good job and you will be remembered....for example - I was a freelance Production Assistant in the mid 80's. I busted my hump for $150 flat a day. Most of you know that P.A.'s are also known as "pee-ons". I worked my a$$ off and made everyone laugh. To this day 20 years later, the Producers / Directors that hired me still remember me. That's what it's all about, IMHO.

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Hello, jamesnw

Quote: "Apple Certification...didn't find an answer to this question, only on how worth it it is to get certified"


It depends. If you want to make a movie and be like Walter Murch or Dede Allen you don't need anything of the sort because anyone can edit -- it's just an in and an out, if you can't tell a story with that you're in the wrong business.

But...

Step 1 -- Some companies require that you take an Apple Certified class taught by Apple Certified Pro Trainers and have a piece of paper which states you have taken that class, others don't.

Step 2 -- Others go on to become a Certified User of FCP 6 Level 1 tells others you passed a very difficult test certified by Apple Inc. but that said be aware that "Certification is not meant to indicate that someone is a "good editor." It is an indication that someone is proficient in a specific Apple Pro application...certification lets them know that you at least have baseline product knowledge."

(FOX, CNN, Time Warner, SONY, Televisa, Apple store employees, National Geographic, Variety, universities known for film making, high schools known for film making...to name a few do run their editors/educators through the Apple Certified classes to receive a certificate of completion and some demand that you pass the End User Exam. So these companies would be very interested in the End User Exam Certification if you have one.)

amor y paz,
victor
[www.victorfoto.com]

Quote
(FOX, CNN, Time Warner, SONY, Televisa, Apple store employees, National Geographic, Variety,......

Really? Wow. Is this a prerequisite to employment there or after they are hired?

Michael Horton
-------------------

Hey, Michael

Quote: "Really? Wow. Is this a prerequisite to employment there or after they are hired?"


The ones in my class have all been after the fact. Televisa, SONY, FOX, Time Warner, universities, high schools,...So, they've been editing/teaching in that position and then told to take the Apple Certification class and some told they must pass the certification exam.

I think the certifications are a good baseline, I'm glad Apple is doing this. It makes us way better editors with both video, audio, graphics and dealing with the different formats and cameras. But there needs to be a balance of continual education and experience.

BTW, I've seen seasoned award winning editors fail the certification test. Most editors who take the test fail it. As the test stands today it is a very difficult test to pass. In the past the FCP exam questions got out and anyone could pass the test, not so today.

I would recommend if anyone is going to take the FCP 6 certification test to get the Diana Weynand book FCP6 (Apple Pro Training Series)
[www.lafcpug.org]
take 2 weeks to go through the book and know it well and then practice with FCP 6 a lot before taking the test. You cannot take the certification class and expect to pass the test at the end of the week unless you're like someone like say, Shane Ross

amor y paz,
victor
[www.victorfoto.com]

wow

no a certification will not get you a job but it will close a deal. in a year i might get 55 - 65 contracts for commercials and feature infomercials. i can tell you that for sure 20 of those were closed based on my certifications.

some people may think your giving them a crook of manure telling them that you can do this or that in video for them. they often times look at your demo will and out of skepticism think," how do i know for sure this person did this?'. in these moments being on apples list certainly helps to gain your potential clients confidence.

Quote
joe
Another thing...think about the term "Qualified Editor" for a minute. Just because a person knows the menus / layouts / codecs / etc does not make them "Qualified" to tell a story. I would take a verbal referral from shane, derek, nick, jude, mike or anyone I trust as experienced Editors over a random name off an Apple list of certificate holders any day of the week.

experience is the most important thing and i have saved quite a many a project from people in this forum. however when you are just getting started and dont have friends in hi places so to speak, then you need something else to show you are not just some idiot off the streets.
at 30 projects i say you are still in the exceptional novice range. the apple certification DOES HELP.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
scene 2
( door bursts open a shadowy figure holding a breif case and a cordless laser mouse and a briefcase stands menacingly in the doorway)
this is the one man band ( sales preditor ). the mouse for all that he can do with apple pro apps and the briefcase because he goes out and sells his product without help from a canned marketing team. i respect what everyone does so you wont catch me telling shane that the way he tells the story is too vague. or telling johan that his demo reel is to network. i dont do graphics within 25% of johan and haven't told as many stories as shane.
however, i would bet that because i meet with about 18 potential clients in a 4 day sales week i can tell them something about sales. it seems to me that with the heavy experience that a lot of the mentors here they have forgotten or never had to really sale on a consistent basis for a few years now. so gaining the trust of a client may not be something you guys have to do. not the trust of a client who has already paid but the client who never thought that they needed video and hasn't paid.
if oliver stone gave me a recommendation i am sure that i could get the contract without much effort. but oliver stone has no idea who i am and i dont have that luxury. so i have to depend on my work and my certs to help sell that client.

Quote
joe
I swear I didn't know there was an individual job description "Offline Editor" until I started looking for work in LA & NYC. In my market,

this is an excellent point. if i remember correctly joe is/was in middle florida. i am in atlanta. we both have similar markets. LA, NYC, and Chicago have a larger editors community so things are a little different there.
in smaller market were only every 4500th person is into film and video editing you get a lot of those editor who really dont know what they are doing but can sell. so they go and get a contract and make the client piping hot when they find that their end result is less than desirable. now this customer tells a few friends and makes it hard for me to sell a quality product to them. they still remember the burn they had previously. that apple certification comes into play again.

no the cer doesn't give you experience but it at least says that you understand broadcast standards and nle fictionality. if you had a trainer like i had you will get explanations as to why do this or that.

BTW i had only done 12 project before taking the class in vegas during nab. when i came back i redid a project 10x better and used it to get my biggest client to date, Waste Management, yep the trash company. that contract was signed based on my remixed project and you guessed it, the apple certification.


ps joe i am not trying to pick on you with the quotes its just that you and a few others always have something interesting to build on in your post. please don't beat me up. lol

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Hi,

To get a certification it will force you to study a lot. The test is only valid with an 80% correct questions in a 80 questions during 1h30m. Read the FCP manual.
This doesn't not makes you a good editor, i agree with this, but it helps you to start in the market.
My case is different from yours because i work in Europe and here usually people take credit by what someone is certified.
In Portugal i'm probably the most certified editor in FCP, does it help, yes a lot, althoug i have my mind in what's important, how to cut the history.

Rui Barros
Editor Colorist Trainer
Lisbon, Portugal
RTP Post-Production
Apple Certified Trainer FCP 7
Apple Certified Pro FCP 7

Quote

understand broadcast standards and nle fictionality.

Froidian slip?

yep you got it. but i am the worst typer in the world. functionality is what i wanted to use.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

I took the end user exam a while ago and learnt a huge amount by having to engage with the Diana Weynand book. I discovered i'd been doing some very easy things in a painfully roundabout way. I also discovered many excellent keyboard shortcuts i would never have learned otherwise. Of course this has nothing to do with being a good editor. I have now put the logo on to my business card and CV. No great interest so far (i'm freelance) but i feel more qualified and thus confident which is a good thing. Another factor worth pointing out is that there are a lot of people out there getting hold of a copy of FCS and, after playing around with it for a couple of weeks, applying for editing jobs that they're really not up to. My guess is that prospective employers would like to know that you've passed the test. I got my last gig off the back of my CV without any interest in a showreel.
Recenty i took the Train the Trainer course in London because i sometimes run video workshops and thought it would look good on my CV. I think i've bagged myself a new course off the back of this though it hasn't been conformed yet. I would not have even applied for this job without the certification as it was specified as a prerequisite. The exam for this was significantly harder than the level 1 exam and i had to pay for a four day course but i'm confident it will be a good investment in the long term.
As a self taught editor who'd picked up every bad habit in the book, the many hours i've spent with the Peachpitt books to get these certifications have definitely raised my game.
Anyone who wishes to take the level1 exam should be VERY familiar with Weynands book as it covers everything you're likely to be asked. Those wishing to do the trainer exam need to know more tecky stuff outside of the peachpitt book and be more familiar with the FCS roundtripping process. They also have more questions in the 90 minute window and the graphics covered pages can take time to reload between questions so its much more challenging.
To sum up, its too soon to say whether these bits of paper have much real world value, but there's no doubt i've benefited along the way.

80 questions? Do they sit you in front of the final cut, or is it run on paper? (i can't imagine a paper test on editing)

Big difference between the level 1 exam and trainer exam. Level 1 is all about the tool. Trainer exam is about the tool, your ability to teach the tool and your ability to use the tool.

[www.apple.com]

[www.apple.com]

Michael Horton
-------------------