Shake 4 vs. DV Matte Pro Keyers

Just wondering if anyone here has worked with the keyer in Shake and the keyer DV Matte Pro and how would you rate them as compared to one another.

I'm working with DVCPro HD footage and really only need to purchase a keying software right now, but I do like the added items associated with Shake for a few hundred dollars more. I've had the opportunity to see DV Matte Pro in action, and as far as ease of use and ability, I was very impressed. But if I could get similar ease of use and quality from Shake and spend a couple more hundred, it may be worth it. So if you've worked with them, your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

Steven Gladney

Sometimes the obvious is hidden in plain view.

Both are good products, but SHAKE is so much, much more than just a keyer. If you're JUST looking for a keyer, have you looked at "Ultimatte: Advantage"? Here's the url: [www.ultimatte.com]

It ain't cheap, but it truly does generate the best "automatic" keys I've ever seen.

DV Matte Pro has the benefit of just being a "plug in" so from a workflow POV, that would be your simplest choice. For Quality, I'd go with Ultimatte, and for versatility, I'd choose "Shake".

Shake will require a bit of a learning curve and you are committing to "roundtripping" in and out of FCP.


Good luck.


Mark

i just downloaded and played a bit with the ultimatte advantedge thing in fcp - WOW, does it ever work wonders! but JEEZUSLOUIEZEUS is the interface one convoluted illogical piece of dung! you cant even move sliders to change values you have to clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick
clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick
clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick a little arrow to change settings.

the stellar output though may well be worth the price and the wonky interface!
_____________

update: ok you CAN slide the sliders. kinda like you do by sliding numeric values in after effects.
its still a LOONY interface but maybe it just takes some getting used to...

Ultimate looks great, but where do you guys see the price for it?

The only think I REALLY need right now is a keyer, which is why I had my mind set on DV Matte Pro. But, me always being the frugal shopper, started thinking what if I could get just a good a keyer, spend a couple hundred more and get a much more dynamic software like Shake? That's why I was really curious in how well Shake worked as a keyer. If it's a great software for doing a bunch of other things, but only a par keyer, then maybe it's better to buy DV Matte Pro and invest in Shake when I need all those other things. But if it's a keyer on par with DV Matte Pro, then maybe I just bite the bullet now, buy the more dynamic software, and still get my most immediate need, a good keyer!

So, any additional feedback is appreciated and I will also continue to do my own research.

Steven Gladney

google it. its like $1500

If it is important to you check render times as well. Last year I found the ultimatte to require considerable render time. If you have a recent version of Aftereffects check the bundled version of Keylight. That may be what Shake is using as well.

-V

Steven,

Shake is an exceptionally good and versatile keyer.

But... the product itself is EOL (end of life). No further improvements will be made.

Apple is migrating many of the features found in Shake to Motion. Example: Stabilizing image.
Or, super clean slo mo.

We do all of our interviews as green screens, so we have 40 "keys" in a half hour. For our money, Ultimatte is usually the work horse. Be aware that it has been buggy with certain versions of FCP. We now go out to after effects, do the keys, and then bring them back into FCP. One dongle and Ultimatte will work in BOTH FCP or AE installed on the same computer.

Great looking keys are never really just one click. Typically, you're doing several different layers to handle unique conditions within the frame. I'd suggest taking the "least painful" approach. Buy DV MATTE Pro... it's the cheapest. If that ain't enough for you, go to Shake. And if that's got you frustrated on the learning curve, go to Ultimatte. (Despite what Wayne says

Mark

Yeah, $1500 is probably going to be a little out of my price range.

Sometimes the obvious is hidden in plain view.

Steve,

Do you have After Effects? It comes with The Foundry's Keylight which is a FABULOUS keyer and it's FREE With the program. Here's a highly compressed sample of a spot I did completely in AE using a combination of AE plug-ins (Keylight / Spill Supressor / Matte Choker) on studio greenscreen product footage we shot with a Varicam @ 60fps. It's VERY TOUGH to key reflective surfaces and it came out flawless (Uncompressed 10-Bit master).

[www.digidojo.net]

...I just hate what the H.264 codec did to my reds

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Joey,

I do have After Effects, but it's like a really old version. I haven't bought an upgrade because it still does what I need it to do and I combine it with a lot of Apple's Motion and ProAnimator.

I've heard about Keylight and have seen it in action (really good piece, by the way Joey. If you wouldn't have told me I would have sworn the clubs were 3D animation) and it seems to work great. But, I'd have to buy After Effects pretty much all over again, and frankly, Shake or DV Matte Pro are more affordable right now for what I need to do.

Steven Gladney

Sometimes the obvious is hidden in plain view.

You would NOT have to buy AE all over again...just an upgrade price...and why would you buy shake when it's EOL? Well...it's your $$$, but for a little more than DV Matte Pro ($199), you could UPGRADE from AE 5, 6, or 7 Standard or Professional to CS3 Professional for $299!!! Why buy a plug-in when you can have full blown AE CS3 Pro (Leopard update releasing in a week or so) for a little more?

Pull the trigger...you will thank me later, I swear

[store1.adobe.com]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Hey Steve,

I have used the keylight filter in Shake to pull keys and it is wonderful. Check out Conduit by DV garage. It is a plug-in that works inside of FCP and Motion. In motion it lets you view your key in real time (provided you have a fast grfx card). Both Shake and AE are excellent solutions too, but the roundtripping involves more steps. Check out the conduit review on this website.

Mike