"Copy Master Clip" window... make it stop!

I'm working in FCP 6.0.

I have a bunch of master clips that are over an hour long each. I logged them with markers, basically by scene number. When I load up the marker for "scene 1" into my viewer and start cutting, every time I drag footage to my timeline I get this window that pops up:

**
COPY MASTER CLIP

A master clip already exists for a clip you are adding to this project, but some of its properties do not match those of the clip you are adding. Choose how you want to resolve this conflict from the options below...

**

What is this? And how do I make it stop? This makes me think that I'm unclear on how FCP organizes its media, or keeps links between things.

As a long-time AVID guy, the way I'd normally organize a project like this is by subclipping my master tape by scene, and then using markers to flag each take, and maybe putting it all into a bin marked "scene 1".

I know that FCP doesn't like sub-clips, especially when you re-name them. But this is a weird problem with markers, and it's quite irritating to have to click through this window every time I make an edit.

Any thoughts or explanations of this window?

What do you mean by, "FCP doesn't like sub-clips, especially when you re-name them?" I've never had any issues with subclips unless you are referring to EDL confusion. I don't see any reason why you can organize your project the same way you did on the Avid.

As for your problem, I'm not sure exactly what's going on, but have you tried to edit the clip into the timeline as opposed to dragging it into the timeline. It's possible that the act of drag and drop with a marker "sub-clip" might be telling FCP something different than just "put the clip in the timeline". Try hitting F10, or dragging the clip from the viewer to the canvas instead.

Andy

Like Andy, I'm a little confused as to exactly what you're doing, but I'm guessing you are opening the clip by double-clicking the marker. I've never edited using this method, but these alternatives have always worked for me:

1. Instead of accessing the markers from the Browser, I open the clip by double-clicking the actual master clip, then navigate the markers using SHIFT-Left/Right Arrow keys;
2. I make those markers subclips by selecting them and pressing APPLE-U. As Andy says, subclips can be renamed to your heart's content with no impact on the media management.


www.derekmok.com

You mean like this screen grab?
[www.lafcpug.org]

We were trying to move projects from digitizing stations via Firewire drives and getting that window and a host of "timecode must be changed" notices. We never tracked it down except that the one editor who cut an episode without using merged or multiclips, just stacking and blading, had no such problems.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Yep, that screengrab is the message that pops up! But in that thread, there's no getting to the bottom of what that message is about. I'm also not trying to media manage, but to rough cut.

To Derek - Yep, I'm editing by double-clicking the marker, loading the marker up into my viewer, and editing from there. I get that message box whether I use overwrite or click-and-drag to get clips onto the timeline.

To Andy - Yep, my problems with subclips are in EDL management. The first time I used subclips (believe I was on FCP 5, but I can't remember any more), it caused a massive headache in the online. That experience left me a bit leery of using them. The other reason I don't use subclips (and it's the same reason the clip-based-marker editing doesn't work so well for me either, is that I can't, or simply don't know how to, match frame back from a subclip to the master clip it came from.

So the list of questions that I'm stuck on seems to be growing...

1) What is that error message about? The one from the screen grab? I have the feeling if I understood what caused that, I'd have a much more solid grasp on how FCP handles media.

2) Is there a good thread on the boards about how FCP manages media? A cursory search gets drowned in "media manager" questions, and I think I need a better grasp on the master clip/subclip/independent clip lingo. There seem to be some crucial differences from the AVID that I'm getting confused by.

3) Subclips - is there a way to match from a subclip back to the master clip it came from? Is there a way to re-name them without losing the tape information, so you don't screw up your EDLs?


Thanks!

Jeff

Jeff,

I have seen the same error several times. I believe it can be traced back to anything having to do with "Copy and Paste". Try duplicating something instead of pasting in the timeline.... I'll let you know if I find out more.

I havent seen any good threads on media managment in final cut, but I had a long conversation about this with an AVID friend who says that there are a lot of differences. As far as I know, the media clip is the original media file [the one that would be on your unity/or server] the master clip is the original media file once its brought into final cut [with a path back to your original media file on your unity/server]. A Subclip is a secondary clip made from a master clip in the project, and should reference both your master clip, and your original media file on the unity.

Making an independent clip will simply allow your clips to be seperated when you are onlining. If you hold down option+apple+F you can match back from any subclip, multiclip, duplicated clip back to the original media file on your unity. *Note that if you just click "f" you will be matching back to the master subclip or multiclip, NOT the original media file.

Hopefully that helps a tiny bit?

Angie

Quote
Jeff
1. What is that error message about

I haven't seen that message pop up as a result of editing into the TIMELINE.
you normally get it if you copy/paste from one project into another project's BROWSER.

are you editing from one project into another?

couple of days ago i started getting the message when i was copying from one in in a project to another bin in hte same project, whch i thought was pretty weird.

now i am trying to duplicate what you are doing.
i CAN get the warning when editing.
but NOT with marker / subclips
only whole clips.
and only when dragging to the timeline,
NOT when using F10, or drag to canvas

what's it about?
FCP is trying to keep a handle on the numbr if versions of a particular clip in the project.
ideally you only want one MASTER clip.

if you do a "reval in bin" (shift F) which version should FCP go to?

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Quote
Jeff
2. Is there a good thread on the boards about how FCP manages media

Lisa Brenneis wrote this article back in the FCP4 days:
[www.lafcpug.org]

for more recent behaviour, try the mannual

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Quote
Jeff
3. Subclips - is there a way to match from a subclip back to the master clip it came from?

NO!

Quote

Is there a way to re-name them without losing the tape information, so you don't screw up your EDLs?

i dont think the problem was the re-naming.
but maybe i need to hear more about the problem.

what used to happen is that FCP would get confused about the START TIMECODE of the subclip.
when making an EDL, FCP assigned the start time of the master clip to the start of the subclip.
something like that.
the SOLUTION is to select all in your sequence, and Sequence Menu > Remove Subclip Limits before you make an EDL or Media Manage.
i hadn't seen this problem for a while.

oh, by the way, your markers ARE subclips.
you may well get the same results

the 3 match frame options are:

f: matchframe. this opens the clip frm the timeline into the viewer.

slight weirdness to get your head around: it opens the browser version of the clip, with the in/outs from the timeline.
so if your browser clip has a speed change on it, but the timeline version doesn't, matchframe from the timeline will open the speed-modified clip into the viewer.

another new concept.
match frame works both ways: you can match frame from the viewer back to that same used frame in the timeline.

shift f: reveal master clip. takes you to the master clip in the browser. works directly from the timeline, no need to open in the viewer first.

doesn not wrk between projects.
Master/Affiliate relationship does NOT work between projects.

the M/A relation ship can become corrupted, and you can lose the link to hte browser,
so keep your work organised

apparently regular "Saves-As" can help the M/A rel. not to become corrupt. (but wont fix it once it is)
one sugested workflow:
do a save as at the end of the day, date-stamp the project, keep it as a daily archive
then do a save-as BACK to the original name and overwrite the original file.

option apple f reveal source file.
pulls the original source file up from the hard drive into the viewer.
has NO affiliation with any clips in your project, and in fact, doesnt belong to any project untill you drag it into the browser, or edit into the timeline.
will have NO logging info, markers, or speed effects.


thre's one more wihtouht a default shortcut:
reveal multiclip angle

if you do a normal f matchframe on a multiclip, the SINGLE ANGLE will open in the viewer.
probably not what you want.
reveal multiclip angle will bring up the multiclip in the viewer.

best approach is to map this to f.
you'll still get normal matchframe behaviour on non-multiclip clips.


nick