Number of clips before FCP 6 slowdown?

I am starting a new project that will span the last 20 years. I am guessing that this project will be at least 10TB. My question is how many clips can FCP6 handle in the same project before it starts to slow down? Or, will it be able to handle all that i give it as long as i have sufficient HD space?

> I am guessing that this project will be at least 10TB.

You mean the media will take up 10TB. A project file that's 10TB is pretty much inconceivable, considering that feature documentaries tend to be about 150-300MB!

> My question is how many clips can FCP6 handle in the same project before it starts to slow
> down?

Hard to say. Your problem will likely be less related to the raw footage and more related to how many timelines, how long the timelines are and how many effects you put on them. The actual size of the media files will also have a bearing (eg. if you're working with high-def material).

Typically project files start getting slow around the 180MB mark, depending on the computer. If you're worried, then make multiple project files to hold your clips and logs, separate from the editing timelines (ie. Sequences). Use project files as extended bins, basically, and only open the ones you currently need.


www.derekmok.com

Yes, the media will be 10TB. It includes everything from Hi8 to Digi Beta to P2. And i want to bring it all in at the highest resolution to avoid ever needing to go back to the tapes.

I am trying to organize footage from the last 20 year. 30 or so fairly large projects. I want to be able to log all of the shots and easily access them once in the project. It seems easiest to have them all in the same project IF it can handle that. The problem with making multiple project files comes when searching for a certain scene, take or location since the metadata is not actually stored on the QTs in the capture scratch but only on the file within the project. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Thanks for you help

Ok. You're wrong.

The secret to making FCP work is to play to it's strengths, and not it's weaknesses. One of it's strengths is the ability to use the basic mac file structure to organize your project. It would be foolish trying put all of your media into one project when that simply isn't necessary.

You can easily have multiple projects open simultaneously. Without knowing what you're planning, it's hard to suggest a solution for you, but I can tell you that if you try to squeeze it all into one project you will most certainly crash and burn.

Projects over 200mb start slowing down, and when you get up around 300 mb, you're on borrowed time.

An example of multiple project structure would be: A project for digitizing. A project for "Interviews". A project for B-roll. A project for "Stills". A project for music. Get it? Try using the mac file system to separate your elements.

Good luck.

Mark

I agree with Mark. Use the ability to have multiple projects open at the same time to your advantage. Think of them as open bins.

If it were me, I would use Mark's method of organising, or I might organise it by year groups, so - 1998, 1999, 2000 - or perhaps by media type, if that makes more sense to your type of memory - Hi-8 footage, DV footage, Digibeta footage and so on.

OR - if you know what the destination of each section is, I would use the method I mostly use for Lifestyle TV, which is to add media to it's destination bin or project. So, say, for eg, a Bio show might have a project for Jamie Farr, one for Dustin Hoffman, one for Mel Gibson and so on. Associated media goes into the correct projects/bins.

It's really not that hard to follow as long as you design a system that works for you.

Also remember: Whatever system you start out with doesn't have to be the be-all end-all. If midway through you need to reorganize, do so. Just make sure you have organized, date-stamped, periodical manual backups of your project file. With a good manual-backup system in place, you can move, copy, paste, duplicate, delete things in your Browser with impunity.

For example, if you use Jude's method (which looks the most logical to me, supplemented by a good bin structure within each year's project file), there's no reason you can't have "1998-A.proj" as well as "1998-B.proj". Or "1998a_interviews01.proj", "1998b_interviews02.proj" and "1998c_b_roll.proj".

The possibilities are limitless. Don't get glued to one work method if the requirements change.

And yes, listen to Mark. He deals in volume all the time and as far as I know he's dead on. One project file for all your clips will be asking for a lot of unnecessary trouble. Also inviting the danger of corruptions, freeze-ups, and making your system more fragile.


www.derekmok.com

Thanks for all the info. I think what was throwing me off was on my tests of using multiple project files i was "importing" the files from the capture scratch of one project into the new project and the metadata (shot/scene/take) did not seem to come with it. But now when i copy/paste from one to another the metadata stays intact. And that enables me to organize it much better obviously.

This is a pretty big undertaking of organizing a LOT of footage and i want it done correct the first time. I am used to big projects. Just not too familiar with 30 big projects at once. Thanks again for your help.....

"i was "importing" the files from the capture scratch of one project into the new project and the metadata (shot/scene/take) did not seem to come with it"

It seems that you're caught on the idea that a project must contain BOTH the media and the sequence... it doesn't. If you can break that notion, and just think of the ENTIRE mac file structure as one big project, it may help. You don't need to import media from one project to another to use it. For example, we have projects that contain NOTHING but sequences. No media. This is very helpful in a networked environment where you're throwing cuts back and forth. You don't want to have to move huge projects, just sequences. In your case, the advantage is that as you move through your cut, you don't have to have everything open all the time. You need only open what you need at the time. This will improve your performance tremendously.

Finally, take advantage of the "REVEAL IN FINDER" feature. This works even if a clip comes from a "closed" project. Match framing a clip, then using this command will reveal where your clip came from and if you then decide you need to access more from that project you can then open it up.

I know this sounds complicated, but it does work. The key is to break free of the "FCP generated" file structure and create your own. Good luck.

mark

>
> Projects over 200mb start slowing down, and when
> you get up around 300 mb, you're on borrowed time.
>


Great advice so far, mark... I agree with it completely- usually a finished project would be around 50 mbs at most, but there was once i hit around 200 mbs (it was a pilot, so i guess it became big)... but what causes the bulk of project size increment? It's something i've never been able to really understand. Because suddenly my project sizes started to grow smaller (i'm thinking it's because i moved onto final cut 6...

Is it the length and number of sequences? or is it keyframes?

> what causes the bulk of project size increment?

The #1 cause I've seen is multiple versions. Editing decisions, especially if you're using filters, blow up the project file, and if you're keeping more than two or three versions on a long program, your project starts to pull a Kirstie Alley. Logged clips, by contrast, don't take up nearly so much room. Documentaries, of course, are most susceptible to this, since most editors (myself included) also use Sequences as shot-selection containers, "graveyards", experimental playgrounds, alternate edits etc.


www.derekmok.com

What everyone said, plus...

Another cause of "slowdown" -- the original question-- is a very busy sequence with several hundreds of edits. FCP, like Avid, has to "build pipes" from all cuts to all related media. Back in Version 2 and thereabouts under OS9, you could see FCP become paralyzed with only a single very cutty 1 hour timeline loaded. FCP was a "design-ahead" tool for complex work at that point. You could improve matters dramatically by manually expanding your application memory allocation, which today under OSX is done automatically-- until you run out of RAM.

When you start seeing those annoying "video display" messages, or the SBBOD, after making a change in your timeline, you're likely running into the CPU or RAM limit.

Solutions:
Fast engine, fast disks or network storage, and more RAM.
Load only the project or projects needed.
In the timeline, load only the sequence(s) needed for active edit.
Don't overuse nests-- for instance using them to contain rushes for scene as well as the cut scene. (Yup, at least one DV feature client used it this way. Much slowdown.)

HTH

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:
Instantly clear BOTH In-Out Marks with Option- X !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack-
the ideal affordable gift for shortcut-hungry colleagues.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

> In the timeline, load only the sequence(s) needed for active edit.

Ahh, this is a good one. Learn this shortcut: CONTROL-W (Close Tab). I've seen soooo many younger editors (and several who are more senior than me) who don't know how to close a single Sequence, so they have 24 Sequences open in their Timeline window. At some point, this can devour all your RAM and even prevent FCP from launching or opening that particular project.

Close those things when you're not using them! Nobody needs constant access to 20 Sequences at once!


www.derekmok.com

Ctrl W! cool! thanks for the tip! I usually rightclick... Great that there's a shortcut for that! Is there also one for toggling between tabs within the canvas/timeline?

Haha! i'm studying for my final cut exam in a few weeks... So... to add to the great advice- ram is cool, but so far, OS X (pre leopard doesn't have the capabilities to tap into anything above 4gb RAM), also, I recall final cut being unable to tap into more than 4gbs of ram, as final cut and 10.4 and below are 32 bit systems. I believe leopard is a 64 bit system (allowing one to tap into a full 8gigs of ram), does compressor 3 also have the same capabilities as leopard?


Heh. A lil OT, just saw in my optimizing your final cut system for fcp 5 (i'm a lil backdated in my books, sorry).. there seemed to be a typo- apple's uncompressed codecs are supposed to be upper (odd) dominant, not lower as they mentioned. did they shift the field dominance over the years? Hmm.. and to double check too, is dvcpro50 upper dominant? (i recall it was dv lower (even), being the oddball of the codecs).

>>Is there also one for toggling between tabs within the canvas/timeline?<<

In FCP 6.0+ (I think it started in 6.0..) it's apple 1 for viewer, apple 2 for canvas, apple 3 for the timeline and apple 4 for the browser.


>>and even prevent FCP from launching or opening that particular project. <<

I got caught with this one many years ago and ever since I've always made a sequence called 'Workline' or 'Blank' which is left open and empty when the project is closed. I could also close all the sequences, I guess, but it tended to freak out the producer if he opened up the program to review and there was no timeline, so I just went with leaving my workline open.

> I could also close all the sequences, I guess, but it tended to freak out the producer if he opened
> up the program to review and there was no timeline, so I just went with leaving my workline
> open.

Boy, it's one of the many things that can be annoying about producers who like to muck with our editing materials, isn't it? Many of my clients/producers do that. But I'm adamant about not using that "Open last project upon application launch" option. I scare my producers with some of those above "prevents FCP from launching" stories (which are legit, as Jude says) and they tend to go my way.

The way I see it, it's also unacceptable that a producer can just muck with the first project that automatically opens and not know exactly which file that is. I've had people screw me up big-time from that (eg. if an archived project file opens automatically and changes are made that they want to keep).

Bad habits from bad FCP training. Learn the damn file management, fer cryin' out loud!


www.derekmok.com

Nah. There's no mucking with anything with the guys I work with. They just open them up to watch them. They all know that 'mucking' will result in a smack upside the head AND more editing time on the bill. In fact the guy I originally did it for was a beginner, but he's pretty well versed these days, so the whole point is probably moot. It's just a habit now. But I do love having a workline/graveyard/alternate efforts line.

> They all know that 'mucking' will result in a smack upside the head AND more editing time on
> the bill.

Wish some of my client-producers knew that. I've tried to teach them manual backups with no success. And one time, while they had my timeline open and were playing around, the project file went up in smoke. Good thing I do manual backups every two hours.


www.derekmok.com