capture scratch folders

Is there a way to have folders within capture scratch folder that are named according to bin name as well as project name?

I'll try and explain what I'm getting at. If I set scratch disk to DRIVE 1 there's automatically a CAPTURE SCRATCH folder made on that drive. Inside that there is a folder with PROJECT NAME.
(DRIVE 1>CAPTURE SCRATCH>PROJ. NAME> )
What I'm trying to do is take that one step further and add a folder with the same name as the bin that I'm capturing clips in.(DRIVE 1>CAPTURE SCRATCH>PROJ.NAME>BIN NAME)

Is this possible or is it wrong to even think this would be helpful.

log them into bins. then when you're doing batch capture, relocate the scratch disk as you're moving through the bins.

Not possible. Well, it IS, but you'd have to set up a new folder for every new bin, and in that folder would be ALL the folders you see...Capture Scratch, Renders, Audio renders. Not worth it...footage can get so buried that way.

Why do you want to do that? You don't organize your footage on the finder level anyway, you do it inside FCP. Why do you need it that way on the capture drive?


www.shanerosseditor.com

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I take my own word back too... no it's not easily possible and not adviseable to do a "capture scratch->prj name->bin name"

You'll end up getting: "capture scratch-->project name-> capture scratch->project name->footage".

If you have one folder per bin, that's just one more step you have to go through if you ever needed to reconnect media. Also you'll have multiple "Capture Scratch - Project Name' folders -- that's two more folders per location. Bad, bad idea. And if you renamed your bins, what would you do -- have to rename those folders as well?

You're overthinking things. Keep it simple and obvious in the file system (OS), do the detail work in the Browser where you can see the metadata.


www.derekmok.com

The only reason I'm trying to do this is so when the project is finished I can get rid of most of the raw footage but keep anything I could possibly use again. Ultimately I'd like to end up with stock footage on my hard drive and have it be organized so I can find it easily and import into any future projects.
Thanks for all the input, maybe I need to learn to manipulate media better through FCP browser and not worry about hard drive? I'm just exploring the best options.

> when the project is finished I can get rid of most of the raw footage but keep anything I could
> possibly use again.

Use Media Manager when that happens.

> Ultimately I'd like to end up with stock footage on my hard drive and have it be organized so I
> can find it easily and import into any future projects.

Why not create an FCP project with the stock-footage clips organized into bins? Then you can do simple Copy-Paste operations to get them into the new projects where you need them. Plus you can enter metadata (Log Notes, In/Out points, markers, Comments etc.) into the clips' Browser columns. Much easier to search than in OS.


www.derekmok.com

Thanks Derek, So I guess bottom line is, capture to drive and forget about it, manage media solely from FCP.

> capture to drive and forget about it, manage media solely from FCP

Well, you'd want to know what the location is, but yes, in general you'd want as few media locations as are practical. Non-recapturable media should be in their own categories, but not too minutely grouped. For example, I never put sound effects and music files in the same folder, and I never put video graphics files in the same folder as non-FX-type footage.

One time a producer went and captured about 60 tapes of documentary footage...then went and grouped them in OS, one folder per reel. Major pain in the butt for me come time for editing -- this system is utterly useless because a) it's pretty rare that you'll need to know which reel a clip is from at the OS level; b) during a media reconnect you'd have to go to 60 places rather than one; and c) the reel names are right there in the Browser anyway!

Usually when I have multiple folders for batch-captured tapes from timecoded sources, it's when I have, say, two or more external drives. Then you have no choice, obviously.


www.derekmok.com

Well.... I have to disagree with Shane and Derek here.

There IS a value to organizing your media at the FINDER level and NOT in the browser. In our workflow, the person doing the digitizing is often NOT the editor. So.... to keep things organized, we use a SEPARATE project just for digitizing, then move that media into appropriate folders BEFORE anyone starts editing. This accomplishes a few things. The whole "capture scratch" folder name is an non-issue. We can organize multiple projects/shows and still keep everything straight. We can filter out problems like corrupt "a-v" clips or duplicate file names before they become a problem. And, we can structure our folders so that the "reconnect" process is never more than a few levels deep.

Many of the "media management" issues that people whine about can really be traced to poor media organization. I've been vocal about many of the "real" media manager issues, but it's fairly easy to eliminate most of the problems just by staying organized.

Mark "organization is the key to creativity" Raudonis

Thanks for the the info guys. I guess I have to explore my options a little more, and see whats best for me.

Well Mark, after he made the comment about wanting to save some footage and keep it separate, I was about to mention the workflow you talk about. When I am on a single project, I keep all of the captured media in the capture scratch folder. Then like Derek mentioned, SFX and Music and Graphics in separate folders.

But now that I am on a series, with separate episodes and segements, we do organize on the finder level. We have a capture project that we capture the footage, then on the XSAN, the assistants move the media files to the appropriate folder.

So you can organize on the finder level, you just need to do it after you capture. FCP will not make separate BIN folders without adding all of those capture folders.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

It still seems to me that it would be kinda nice just so you could organize in the browser as you log and then you wouldn't have to move anything on the finder level but it would be where you wanted it for future. But like Shane said not possible w/out all the capture folders.

"It still seems to me that it would be kinda nice just so you could organize in the browser as you log..."

You can. But, I think you're missing the point that the finder gives you a much greater degree of flexibility for projects both large and small. For larger projects, I'd even argue that it's the ONLY way you should approach project organization.

While organizing in the browser may be easier, it's ignoring where your media really is located, which creates many of the media management problems everyone complains about.

The finder is your friend. Use it.

Mark

"The finder is your friend. Use it. "

I agree Mark. I like to know where the media is on the drive. I'm pretty new to this stuff and just trying to figure the best way to organize hours of footage, be able to find it, and delete some clips, save some and so on.

Mark, I agree with you 100%

Organizing clips inside FCP does not work if you use programs like AE or even Motion. They do not have a clue how your bins are organized inside FCP. A lot of scrolling ahead...

> Organizing clips inside FCP does not work if you use programs like AE or even Motion.

As with most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

You guys may be somewhat misinterpreting what Shane and I were saying. We would be the last people on earth to say "don't organize anything in the OS". Shane authored a DVD called Getting Organized in Final Cut Pro, after all, and he included file management, not just clip and bin management within the Browser.

What both of us were stressing is that you can't fight the FCP capture locations. When using Batch Capture, FCP must inevitably create "Capture Scratch", "Render Files" and "Audio Render Files". And if you were to set up capture folders like Browser Logging Bins, you'd have one set of these three folders within every bin-as-folder. Bad news.

As Mark was writing, you can organize after you capture, as long as you follow the general laws about file management -- each clip a unique name, clear yet not overlong long/convoluted/cute/creative folder and file names, etc. As long as you ensure a clear and uncluttered path to reconnecting media, you're okay.

Some people go to the extremes of only organizing in the FCP project and putting their graphics, audio, timecoded clips, non-timecoded clips, still images, producers' notes etc. in one big folder.
I never start editing any project that's "organized" as such, unless I completely reshuffle everything logically first.

However, OS folders are not the only way to organize. If you organize by individual reels, say on Mark's show, I'm pretty certain it would be chaos. He is dealing with thousands of tapes, and thousands of folders for just timecoded clips isn't likely to be an efficient, workable system.

Some things are better organized in the FCP project file Browser. Some things have to be organized at the Finder level. Some things should be organized by putting some information right into the file name. Some things (eg. detailed shot/performance descriptions) should be left only in the metadata of the Browser and not the actual file name, because they would clutter the file system.

It's all based on experience, the needs and logistics of the show, the number of editors, the work habits of the editor(s), the producers' preference, everything.


www.derekmok.com

So if I manage on the finder level, what would the ideal workflow for capturing and getting organized be. Say for example I,m working on one show w 13 episodes, would I capture everything in one FCP project, and organize video clips in folders as I go, or organize in bins and then go back and organize into folders with media manager, or would having a new FCP project for each episode be the way to go and copy weekly media (music,graphics,etc) into each episodes project?

On the subject of media manager, why when I move files does it bury them 2 more folders deep (Media>fcp project name), and is their a way to change this.

Capture into a main capture project, then organize your footage where you want to, then import it into FCP. I'm not going to go into much more detail than that as I have a tutorial DVD that is ALL ABOUT getting organized with FCP, including multi-user and multi-episode organization.

[training.creativecow.net]

<font color=blue> Shane </font>

<a title="There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!" target=_blank><img src="[homepage.mac.com]; align="right"></a>


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Thanks Shane, I should probly spend the $50 dollars and get a little more education.