3D Titling Software Recommendations?

Sorry - didn't see a better forum here to post this, but wanted to get some input from folks out there who do 3D titling in their productions.

I want to start working with 3D titles (and animating them), and the two apps I have found so far that would appear to do the trick are:

1) Boris Graffiti
2) Zaxwerks ProAnimator

Just curious if anyone has any recommendations/thoughts comparing these two, or, any other alternatives?

I know Boris has been Mac-friendly for years (I actually had Graffiti at one point way back when - it was included with early FCP versions, but doing 3D renders on a G3 iMac was horribly slow .... ). Zaxwerks has apparently been primarily Windows until relatively recently, but appears to be a solid choice on that platform.

I'll probably download the demo versions of both apps soon, but still would appreciate any comments.

Thanks in advance!

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports
8-core Jan 2008 Mac Pro - 10GB RAM - FCS2

You want apps or plug-ins? I use Cinema 4D for 3D text / animated elements rendered out with straight alpha channels. Never used Boris. Invigorator has been on Macs for quite a few years (8 that I know of). We dumped it from my previous shop (9 - AE grafix stations) almost 4 years ago because it was too unstable - especially when calling up old projects. I don't recommend Invigorator.

C4D rocks and the renders are gorgeous.

[www.maxon.net]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

You don't like Motion? There is also this. Kinemac. Terrific program?

[www.kinemac.com]

Michael Horton
-------------------

Last time I checked, Motion does not do 3D text...that's 3D geometry with live shadows.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

[www.apple.com]

Looks pretty 3D to me.

Michael Horton
-------------------

I think he means 3D extruded text. You can't do it in AE using Invigorator, but I don't things there's anything like that in the FCS suite.

Ah! OK, well Motion does have an extrude filter. Hmm. Yeah, its a work around, but it makes nifty 3D looking titles. Ah, here it is. Peter Wiggens has a tut on it. So does Ripple Training if I recall.

[idustrialrevolution.com]

Michael Horton
-------------------

All respect to you & Peter...an extrude filter is hardly 3D geometry - don't confuse the 2. 3D geometry interacts with the lights and creates shadows on itself.

It depends the level of cheese you want...or if you want to avoid the cheese altogether

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

You might go ahead and try Invigorator Pro or Classic. I think you can download a trial version or run it unlicensed with watermark.

I know people who swear by it. But I use Lightwave myself.

Of course you will need After Effects.

Guys,

Thanks for weighing in! I should have clarified in my original post - yes, I'm thinking 3D extruded text and objects. I spend most of my time in FCP, so I'm most used to plug-ins, but I'm not opposed to a stand-alone app.

Must also sheepishly admit that I have yet to really play with Motion, even though I've owned everything FCP and FCP Suite-wise since FCP 1.0 in 1999....

Do not own After Effects and don't intend to any time soon.

I guess the most important elements for me would be ease-of-use and relative light learning curve (I realize I'm probably asking too much here, as 3D and ease-of-use are typically not seen in the same sentence )

Cinema 4D, Lightwave, Maya is overkill (and way over budget) for what I want.

Zaxwerks appears to be nice in that you don't have to mess with keyframes so much, but I'm a bit put off by their website and limited samples in their galleries. Plus, I'm a bit leery of what is essentially a Windows port.

Mike's suggestion of Kinemac looks interesting - might be a possibility, as it's 'made for Mac' and relatively new, meaning it may be 'unencumbered' by old legacy code and interfaces. Will do some further investigation into this app ....

Thanks again!

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports
Your Games ~ Your Memories
www.esvnsports.com

Kinemac is gorgeous for quick, good looking 3D titling.

I looked at Joey's Speed Racer thing. He'll get work!

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Toggle your Timeline Filters bar with Option T !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Likewise, I checked out the Speed Racer thingy ...... I can only dream of creating stuff like that ...

Downloaded the Kinemac demo and have opened it and hit lots of the buttons . Will take some time to figure it all out, for sure. One thing about both Boris Graffiti and Zaxwerks - they have a TON of preset text styles, so you don't have to map images onto all the surfaces/edges if you find one of their presets acceptable. I think you CAN do your own image mapping if you want to, though.


Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports

Kinemac is mildly more complex than Boris Title 3D with many rich capabilities. It has a typical set a keyframe - adjust graphic - advance down timeline - set a graphic change workflow which is fast and simple. And the developer keeps adding new stuff. Very nice guy, I did a video of him for Digital Production Buzz podcast video feed two years ago. Subscribe to the DPB video feed for MacWorld 06 to get a look at version 1.0.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Toggle your Timeline Filters bar with Option T !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Highly recommend Zaxwerks Pro Animator for stunning quick render 3d Titling -- takes any vector graphic (your client's graphic in Illustrator) and extrudes it with unlimited control - texture mapping etc.....I am far from a graphic artists (producer/director/writer/correspondent/editor - but no artist) and I regularly come up with stunning 3d animated Text and logos with Zaxwerk's pro animator....

Their site is loaded with useful video tutorials

The program is not inexpensive -- but for us it paid for itself in one job

Zaxwerks Pro Animator tutorials

Andy

I miss Logo Motion . . . and Infini D. Sigh . . . Ah the good 'ol days.

LogoMotion was great. I wish it were still around. Easy simply to use and very clean.

Andy,

Are you using Zaxwerks on Mac or PC? (I'm Mac). Just curious as to program's stability, support, etc. It IS substantially more expensive than Boris Graffiti or Kinemac.

Like you, I am NOT a graphic artist, nor will I ever be .....

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports

Jeez Joey:

You kick ass! Really nice work. That's why they pay you the big bucks.

Dan

[I miss Logo Motion . . . and Infini D. Sigh . . . Ah the good 'ol days.]

Both still being used productively in high end design!

Check out "Anatomy of an Open" in the Digital Production Buzz podcast video feed. Great example.

For my money, Kinemac has much prettier interface than Zaxwerks, but Zax certainly looks capable.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Toggle your Timeline Filters bar with Option T !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

I wonder what OS they're running that on. OS9? MetaCreations has been gone for years. Versiontracker shows the last version released in 1997.

Quote
grafixjoe
Here's something I did inspired by the new Speed Racer movie (this is what I am talking about when I say "3D text"

Showoff..... (just kidding, awesome stuff Joe)

Tom wrote-
[I wonder what OS they're running that on. OS9? MetaCreations has been gone for years. Versiontracker shows the last version released in 1997.]

Yup, OS9! Believe me, I was astounded to see it when setting up. But that was truly genesis for the open for the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric -- LOL. Any old tool in the right hands...

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Toggle your Timeline Filters bar with Option T !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Jeff - to answer your question way up there over this entry -- yes Zaxwerks Pro Animator it's on a Mac...all mac all the time (have had them since they were a 128K Beige Box....) rock solid stable.....charge a client a 1000 dollars to animate their logo - make it nice and fancy - will take you less than an hour with Zaxwerks (probably less than 30 minutes) ....you'll make a nice 200 dollar profit and the rest is gravy!

Think you can download a demo and play with it - watch their tutorials on line (the video ones) I didn't and could have saved a ton of time figuring things out if I had


Best Andy

Wow - Zaxwerks looks so much like early Livetype/Motion. The tools are really similar. I much prefer the timeline set as well - the 'group' thing in Motion is just annoying.

Jude - Pro Animator is far more powerful than it looks --the series they advertise on the first page of their web site - tutorial training set called "Making it Look Good" encompases how you can combine Pro Animator with texture mapping - After Affects.....splitting elements etc....you can make things look like a million bucks with a few simple keystrokes -- The NBC 3D Peacock from the Old Must See TV Days -- Pro Animator.....

There are endless presets that you can tweak to your hearts content....graphic artists used to charge big money to get the effects any old non artist (me) can achieve with this...... Andy

I just downloaded the ProAnimator demo software last night - fully functional, it appears, just when you render out movies, it watermarks the background.

Just playing with it for about 30 minutes,without knowing anything other than having watched a couple of the online video tutorials, I can tell that this software is very powerful indeed. And it seems to work in a way that video editors like me would be comfortable with - the timeline for animation scenes makes perfect sense, and it does eliminate much of the need for keyframing.

Unlike Kinemac, ProAnimator has a whole bunch of pre-built animations and camera moves that are 'finished products' in their own right, but also great starting points for customization.

Then again, ProAnimator is $400 (US) more than Kinemac and Boris Graffiti.

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports
Your Games ~ Your Memories
www.esvnsports.com

Um...watch those "pre-built" animations. You want to tweak those to make them your own. Nothing worse than people blurting out the name of the plug-in you used when watching your piece.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Joe,

No doubt! I would NEVER do that ....

But my point is that the diversity of animation and camera-move presets they include makes it really easy to whip up something close, then tweak it to make it your own. Almost entirely without keyframe programming, which is great, because I'm all about doing as little work as possible to make something decent looking .... Truth is, my interest in this stuff is primarily for enhancing my own productions, rather than offering animation services to clients. Then again, if I got good at it, who knows?

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports

Jeff Elliott
ESVNSports
Your Games ~ Your Memories
www.esvnsports.com

Jeff

Sounds like you should just pound on Motion and figure it out. You got it, might as well learn it. Not exactly what you want but its a good start.

Michael Horton
-------------------

I'm lost...where is this Joey's Speed Racer thingy you speak of?

Casey Petersen
www.unitedvideoinc.com