OT: Rates...

I have an opportunity to edit a $300,000 high-def indie feature later this year and, this being my first feature, was wondering what I should charge as a day rate? It will most likely be shot with either an HVX-200 or an XDCAM EX. Heretofore, I've done mostly commercial and music video work (occasionally a short film). I have an idea of what I would charge, but I don't want to sell myself short.

Thanks,
Aaron

You sort of answer your question.

Charge them 300K. Yes there's room for negotiation - but at least they'll know you're serious.

Ian

depends on your experience, reel, kit and market (among other variables)

id say $1000 a day is a good jumping off point.

Thanks guys. I was definitely low-balling it. ;-)

what price were you thinking aaron?

I figured between $250 to $500 per day.

$500 a day is good. I think $600 a day is the Union rate card as of today...or something close to that.


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If you quote too much, that can be worse than lowballing. They may not counter offer. $500 a day is a good starting point for a straight cutter with median experience. $1500 a day & up if there is compositing / FX involved (depends on the complexity). More $$$ if you are using your own equipment.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Mostly straight cuts, I imagine, but I will be using my own system. Thanks again, guys. You rock.

Also, on long form jobs most people I know tend to give at least a weekly rate which is slightly cheaper than the day rate, because of the guarantee of lots of work.

That's absolutely right, but 500/day is an excellent starting point, and I wouldn't go lower for short term work.

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eeer, what is short time work for you then. For me it's 2-3 days. A feature takes a bit longer...
(i sometimes work for 20 day jobs for 550 euro a day, and i have a 100+K bay...)

If one can make this amount of money over there, i might pick up my stuff and move...

Bouke

I'm thinking this project will take six weeks in post. The shooting style (assuming they adhere to it) is akin to films like Man Bites Dog, which shouldn't require a lot of editing. That could always change, though.

He said it was a feature, so I figure he's gonna be on it for more than a few days. Once I get over a few full days I drop the rate, and this drop increases with the length of employment, to a point.

Guys,
Talking numbers for rates is against the law. It's called collusion or price fixing. Better to stick to general terms or ping members off list.

I'm just sayin'.....

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I appreciate the sentiment, Kevin, but I don't think anyone is attempting to price fix. I think everyone here has a different rate they'd charge (depending on many variables). It just broadens our perspective, as most posts on this board do.

I'm guessing, all you have to do is not mention you're also an editor. If I were to ask Jude, Nick and Johan what they charged for a project, it'd be just shopping for an editor. There wouldn't be a law against a director/editor deciding to use another editor on his/her project and asking what the rates are! Just as long as you leave out the "How much should we as an industry charge?" issue. If Jude, Nick etc. told you their rates without knowing you're in the same job, then there's no conspiracy or agreement.


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I just said what the union rate card was...


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Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

That's fine Shane, no problem. I just don't think it's a good thing to be tossing around freelance rates here. This is a subject to be taken off list.

Maybe the moderators here think differently, but this is taboo on my own list at SF Cutters.

What the intent is and what the law states are often two different things. But I digress....

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I think the notion of this being price fixing is absurd. It's just knowledge. Everyone can do with it what they will. I appreciate the advice because it broadened my perspective. That was all I ever intended in asking.

I guess you don't understand my perspective. Please mark a post like this OT next time.

I suppose in the US this could be brought under the Antitrust laws...

Its so acute that even buying a prospective client a coffee in Starbux could get you into a bad situation if a competitor took it upon themselves to take legal action!

Price-fixing: [en.wikipedia.org]


Freedom of speech? Only if you know what you can and can't say...


Having said that...

There are published rates for editors in Guilds/Unions these are fixed rates depending on position and experience so are they are breaking the law if everyone follows it?

Asking what someone charges or how much you should expect to pay for a service and then using the details to construct a good business plan is exactly what a Bank or Business advisor would ask you to do, how else can you be competitive or fairly paid?

Its confusing to be sure!



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Are you kidding me - it's illegal to talk about how much you get paid in America? Surely that can't be true. People barely talk about anything else in some countries. That and 'The Biggest Loser'...

At last, a subject in which I have experience and can speak with detailed knowledge.

I've done three exactly such budgeted pictures over the last two years and absolutely nobody got paid more than $200 per day ... ok, $250 tops. And of course the honeywagon driver gets paid more than anyone because he's heavy duty union.

This film is probably shooting for two weeks. The cast is on SAG Low Budget rate $265 per day - maybe even squeaking into Ultra Low Budget illegally at $100 8 hour day plus SAG pension health and welfare.

PA's being paid $75 per day, DP and gaffer getting $200-$250 per day. Sound $200 per day plus equipment rental. if it's his gear. That's how you make a film for $300k. As I said ... I've just done three in a row.

If people are being paid $500 per day, even with their own equipment, you cannot make the film for $300k. Do the math.

Right at this moment I can think of three or four highly capable editors with their own FCP stations who will happily work low budget on a small feature for $1500 a week. Experienced editors who enjoy doing long form drama for a change instead of cranking out commercials etc. It's an artistic choice.

Best

Harry.

He did, didn't he?

H.

Quote

Are you kidding me - it's illegal to talk about how much you get paid in America?

Its supposed to be the same in Oz and Canada too - the UK differs slightly but I need to do a bit more reading.

For instance I think its still legal (in the UK) to buy your prospective clients lunch or take them out to wine & dine them. Something that would have you sued to your underpants in the US should someone wish to take you to court.

Its seen as cheating/bribery rather of purely being competitive and the best company for the client.

I don't think it applies visa versa though. Someone might like to correct me.

Maybe we should do an article on legal especially media related? Anyone know any good media lawyers that might like to be interviewed for LAFCPUG?



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Pffft. Well I call shenanigans. That sounds like just a load of bull designed to disadvantage young players. What's the point of a union rate card, then?

Someone wants to sue me for helping out people trying not to get ripped off, you can sue me for the punch in the face you'll get for it too. Geez. What a nasty world.

It is not illegal for individuals to discuss these things. Michael is not running a union here, there is no attempt to regulate rates or coerce people into a billing model. People are just exercising free speech here.

Freelancers negotiate with employers one-on-one and discussions here have no weight to bring to bear on those negotiations. No weight that would fall under any labor law. It's kind of hard to understand why Kevin would try to put fellow editors into a position where they can't watch out for themselves.

I suppose Parade magazine's annual cover story discussing what different people earn is illegal.

My bad then. Mike can run this group the way he sees fit. It's just that in the FCPUG that I founded (SF Cutters), it is against our policy to discuss rates.

That is all.

Kevin Monahan
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