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4 Edit Suites FCS configuration
Hello Forum,
A Post House wants to build a brand new facilities, all Mac and FCS based.
They have a lot of work in several issues, most in Broadcast, so sharing projects and media is very important.
The facilities will have 4 Edit Suites plus a Machine Room with all the VTR's HD, SD, DV, etc...
Can you, please, help in a suggestion for a configuration... Mac's, Servers, etc...
Thank you.
Rui Barros
Editor Colorist Trainer
Lisbon, Portugal
RTP Post-Production
Apple Certified Trainer FCP 7
Apple Certified Pro FCP 7
Rui,
for sure you know that the gear is pretty straightforward; 4 MacPros with a multi-user FCS license and a server solution with a truckload of storage.
Maybe this helps in a different way:
I think the question in a 4 suite setup is more a decision about what each suite should be able to do. There are basically two approaches:
1. do they all need to do the same work at the same time to the same standards?
or
2. is it better to designate two suites as capture and roughcut stations, a third for color correcting and finishing, a fourth for design, graphics, sfx and definetly a smaller fifth suite for audio mixing and voice-over recording?
I'd go for option 2, as it will save a lot of redundancy in video and audio monitoring gear (plus extras like sfx software, plugin packs, etc), and free up some money to spend on the high-end finishing and graphics suites.
Option 1 would work better for a web-based delivery situation, where all editors are required to produce final OnLine quality product including graphics and audio. You of course need a solid base of very qualified and experienced editors to accomplish this on an ongoing basis. A lot of repetitive supervision is required for quality assurance and to manage project workflow.
Option 2 would let you work with specialists for story editing, color correction, graphics design and audio. I think the better way to go as very few editors really have the talent and experience to cover all those bases 100%. Production quality is more consistent, the overall standard is higher, and the creative process is divided up amongst a team rather than handing off individual projects to a group of soloists.
Whatever you go with, I think those are the basic questions to consider while still in the planning and budgeting stage.
hth,
Clay
Hire a professional who does this for a living. Do not rely on us yahoos on the forums to design machine rooms and edit setups. DO it right....hire a professional.
If you weren't in Portugal I'd know who to recommend.
www.shanerosseditor.com
Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[ itunes.apple.com]
Hi Rui
Like Shane says this is a BIG deal and best handled by pros. Don't rely on forums to tell you what to do here. If there are no experts in this field where you live I suggest they hire a consultant who is at least nearby. You are talking lots of money here so save lots of money and hire pros.
Michael Horton
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Hi
This is "THE" Forum that i rely on, and thank you very much for your help.
In the USA the markert it has lot of solutions, here we don't have that much. That's why your opinion has Editors, Users and the knowlegde of your market is so important for me, before jumping into the dealers propaganda.
Shane and Michael, yes, it is a "money universe" and i'm living in one. Currently i'm working with the Quantel eQ systems and they are connected to Quantel servers. The propaganda did worked, but the systems don't, one did "crash"36 times in just one day. It's amazing what FCP, $1300, does in comparation to a $$$$$$$$$ system. So my point is to offer the best recommendation based on people experience.
ClayC, option 2 is the best for their needs and i guess that Final Cut Server will boost their workflow.
Thank you very much again for your help.
Rui
Rui Barros
Editor Colorist Trainer
Lisbon, Portugal
RTP Post-Production
Apple Certified Trainer FCP 7
Apple Certified Pro FCP 7
My point is, that as knowledgable as I am, when it comes to machine room design and designing and setting up four FCP bays (with shared storage, right?) I am not the guy to go to. I am an editor, a man who uses the edit system. I can build my own single unit, but primarily I am a creative editor. And I think that goes for just about everyone else here. End users who use the products to make video.
That is NOT what you need. YOu need a video engineer...a person who designs and maintains machine rooms and edit systems. I know someone who does just this, and I am sure he would be willing to offer his services...maybe even fly abroad to figure this out. But really this is beyond the scope of 99% of the people here. And the other 1% make a living ddesigning this stuff, so to expect if for free is asking a bit much.
Sorry to be a harsh realist here.
www.shanerosseditor.com
Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[ itunes.apple.com]
Rui,
I read on the FCP-L about a new ethernet based SAN that sounds pretty cool and cheap, just not super high performance (Tiger MetaLAN, see below). I would definitely look into a SAN solution. I would be surprised if there weren't a good VAR in Lisbon or the like. I would recommend someone help you set up that end and provide some guarantee and testing period.
Otherwise, you can do a lot of it yourself if you are comfortable with configuring control panels, replacing RAM, installing video capture cards, optimizing system hardware, IP protocol, driver installations and updates, calibrating monitors, dialing in your audio, connecting your fibre, installing fiber channel cards, configuring the FC software, configuring FCP with decks, FCP Set-Up, patch bay installations, + more.
I've read your posts Rui, and your an ACT so I think you could handle much of this no? If not, hire out the best engineer you can find for the stuff you can't do.
I think I would need help getting the SAN from a live body, but recent SAN storage companies have terrific tech support and don't mind handling calls from Portugal.
Check this out:
Quote
Bob Zelin from the FCP-L
I have successfully setup a very inexpensive SAN system for 3 FCP systems, all doing DVCProHD and uncompressed 8 bit SD (not HD), using an inexpensive ETHERNET based solution. The combination of hardware is a MAC Pro, a big disk drive, a Small Tree 24 port managed switch ($1900), a Small Tree 4 port ethernet card ($670), Tiger MetaLAN server software ($549), and Tiger MetaLAN client software ($249 per edit system).
It is hard to believe, but I am running 3 edit systems off of one 8TB RAID 5 chassis, that is attached to the "central" MAC Pro computer (running OS-X 10.5.2 - this is NOT server software, just a regular boring MAC).
I used the Ethernet Port # 2 of each FCP MAC to connect to the main Small Tree switch. The switch does a "trick" called "link aggrigation" that lets 4 ports of the switch connect to a 4 port ethernet card in the central computer, so you get a 4Gig bandwidth (like Fibre, but cheap), so you can have the bandwidth to feed all of these edit systems.
I have been told by an editor in LA that he has SEVEN FCP systems doing ProRes422HQ with this configuration, with no problems. I have not tried this many systems, but I still cant believe that I have 3 systems running with zero problems.
The Tiger Technology people were great, and allowed me to download the software to do this FOR FREE, to make sure that it would work (there is a 45 day trial). I told my client that if this whole experiment was a failure, he would still have a nice new MAC Pro and disk drive that he could use for another new FCP workstation. Who knew that it would actually work.
The aggrivation factor for me was setting up the "link aggrigation" with the Small Tree switch. I had been shown how to do this at NAB, but even with my lessons, I still could not get it to work, so I called Small Tree, and their support was teriffic. But this was only step one, because this only created the fast network, not the SAN management. For that, I had to call Tiger Technology, and download the MetaLAN software, for both the central computer (I hate saying server since it is not a server running OS-X server software), and the MetaLan client software for the FCP systems. This too was a little aggrivating, and took about 90 minutes on the phone to get all straightened out. But it worked.
I had heard from countless people that Gig Ethernet was not fast enough to do this, but I have seen so many turnkey solutions from EditShare, Apace, Maximum Throughput, LairdShare, all using Gig E cables for their SAN solution - so I figured - WHAT THE HELL, I will try it.
MetaLAN works. If you want a cheap, simple to use (no IT administration ever) SAN solution so you can share media files between FCP systems, this is it. Your major costs are buying a MAC Pro, and a big disk drive array (I used a Maxx Digital EVO 8TB chassis, but you can use anything from Dulce Systems, Cal Digit, G-Tech, Sonnet, and countless others - even Apple !).
Bob Zelin
Kevin Monahan
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Adobe
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Hi,
A video engineer will handle with all the aspects of the configuration. At the old facilities, they have people working in engineering and maintenance of the systems. Again, our market is very small and that means sometimes buying a product without a true knowledge how well it works. The network where i work on has ordered a system that simply works bad, very bad... Having some good ideas like the ones that were here shared is a plus for the beginning of the project.
Thanks again for kind words and your help.
Rui Barros
Editor Colorist Trainer
Lisbon, Portugal
RTP Post-Production
Apple Certified Trainer FCP 7
Apple Certified Pro FCP 7
Well that is good. As long as you have an engineer to put all this together and support you after it is put together than all should be good.
Aren't there big broadcast/production houses in Madrid or some large city near Lisbon? I'd at least call them and ask what they are using, then come back here and get 40 opinions on what you REALLY should be using. 
Michael Horton
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