best upres SD to HD

Hi, folks!

my 90min doc is nearing completion,
and its time to think about getting all the SD material up to HD.

just so you know majority of film was shot HDV,
we have some DV and some SD ProRes (captured from vcd, and im NOT going back there!)
the SD material is a little over 10% of the film.

final version should be 1920x1080 HD or @25fps Progressive, meaning everything is de-interlaced.
(post house are saying grade will be done on their "2k desk"

we're talking to a post house,
but i wanted to get some opinions on the best way to up res.

i am prepared to spend time compiling the SD footage, and cutting the up-res back into a timeline if it means significantly better results

options from the post house include:

1 - up-res in FCP timeline (older posts i've read suggests this is the worst option??)

2 - Kona card (possibly an SD play-out to HD tape, then re-capture?)

3 - ALCHEMIST which could take various forms:
a- SD playout to Digibeta, run thru Alchemist to HD tape, recapture in FCP
b- SD playout from FCP thru Alchemist to HD tape, recapture in FCP
c- SD playout to digibeta, run thru Alchemist direct into FCP


a fourth option is

4- SOFTWARE - INSTANT HD
i have (but haven't used) Red Giant's Instant HD software.
i have the older version which can only work on Progressive material, but would get the latest version if people thought it was great.


thanks,
nick

Nick,

I just finished BETA Testing Instant HD Advanced 1.0 for Red Giant Software (better than Instant HD) and it was just released. It may be worth looking into:

[www.redgiantsoftware.com]

Good luck

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Hi, Joey.

yeah i've got the old version, and could upgrade to the new.

the new one can cope with interlaced footage i believe, which is a big plus as all our footage is interlaced.
(it also does de-interlacing, i think??)


how would you rate it against other approaches?


thanks,
nick

I've just read about people who have used Instant HD. Not glowing feedback. SLOW was the word.

If you have a Kona 3 card you might as well use it. Heck it converts on the fly. If you don't I hear the Matrox MXO2 BOB (not the MXO) does a great job on both up and down scaling. Much cheaper too, and plugs into a macbook pro so no need for a tower. Not sure if it handles de-interlacing but it seems to handle the kitchen sink

[www.matrox.com]

Shane can probably shine some light on this box.

For the price and if it works as advertised, it beats hell out of just about everything out there.

Michael Horton
-------------------

hi, mike

yeah, that does look good.

i think i'm going to extract my SD media and send it to the lab in an FCP project.
one timeline for DV,
one for Prores
they will run it thru SOMETHING, (and maybe for 12 minutes the Alchemist wont break the bank)

they will then capture that back to FCP and send to me for matching back.
i'm thinking to re-capture as Prores so i can actialy run it!


but i might also up-res a few items in an FCP timeline and send that to them as well for comparison.
biggest problem with it all is that i'm in another state working on a new film already!


there's no way im in a unique situation with this film.
i'll bet everyone's got SD media in their HD timelines,
so i'm curious to hear of other people's solutions.


cheers,
nick

I actually preferred the Compressor Uprez example I saw recently to the Instant HD which whilst at first glance looked sharper had aliased edges (jaggies) - the compressor version was smoother.

Because I didn't run the test I'll have to play with it myself to see if it is possible to minimise the jaggies.

Joey - any chance you would have time to put up a couple of frame tests of InstantHD vs FCS up-rezed material?

I'd like to see how SD graphics as well as photographic/video material transfers to HD.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

You guys are referencing "Instant HD" and that is NOT what I am talking about. Instant HD Advanced 1.0 is a brand new software that is much more controllable than the old version. Yes...it deinterlaces & much more. Look at this screencap of the parameters compared to InstantHD (IHD Advanced is the top effect / IHD is under it):



I can't rate it against other options because I haven't used other options. Send me a couple of frames with the specs to / from. I will do a comparison when I get some time.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

i'll dig somethig out in a few days if that's all right.
trying to concentrate on the new one during the week

how long to do 12 minutes worth do you think?
& does it do batches?


cheers,
nick

Cheers bro

When you get time could you run a 720p and a 1080p of each of these? They are both 16:9 FHA 720x576 D1 PAL.

If you can put them back up as PNG or TARGA.







For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Ben...did you see these yet?

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Sweet bro - very impressive uprezzing - much better than the old Instant HD - thanks for that will look on the HD monitor when I get back to the UK later - thanks man!



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Yeah, man...and there's tweakability in the plug-in. It is fabulous if you need to insert some SD clips into an HD project. Not to mention, you have to see this uprezzed stuff with a "Magic Bullet Looks" treatment on it as well - STUNNING. I'll get to that when I get some time...I am effin' slammed these days. A lot of my pieces for Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 09 are going out - will be seen on ESPN, GOLF CHANNEL & all over - game hits stores August 26th

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

so does this work as a plug in in FCP?

can i work in an HD timeline,
drop some SD in and add the "instant HD" filter?

have you tried it in FCP yet, Joey?


nick

"Instant HD Advanced runs only in Adobe After Effects"

so this is of no use to me
thanks anyway.


nick

>b- SD playout from FCP thru Alchemist to HD tape, recapture in FCP
>c- SD playout to digibeta, run thru Alchemist direct into FCP

These 2 look slightly better than option a, generationally. It's Snell & Wilcox- mean machines on standards conversions. Just have to look at what kind of HD tapes as they are intermediates... Think Graeme Nattress would mention something about putting compression on top of compression. So possibly Digital Beta may be better than HDCAM (better bit depth, better chroma subsampling), though for data rates, it's 90mb/s on d-betas vs 144mb/s on HDCAM...

Wow. That stuff looks great, Joey.

Been looking at the MXO2 brochure all day thanks to my 2nd flu bout from the new monsoon season.. But yea, it does lots of stuff! Goes in and out via PCIe. Helps the dynamic RT mode according to the brochure (gotta check this one out)..



www.strypesinpost.com

I've posted the uprezzed versions on my server guys so if you need to reference them they'll be up here for the forseeable future...

Original 1
Original 2

720x576 PAL to HD 1280x720p

Instant HD Advanced Example 1
Instant HD Advanced Example 2


720x576 PAL to HD1920x1080p

Instant HD Advanced Example 1
Instant HD Advanced Example 2



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

I use the Kona 3. Does a bang up job. With footage that doesn't come from tape (DVD...yes...DVD) I use Compressor and a secret mixture I devised...taht takes a LONG time, but looks great. An over night thing.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Hey Ben, if you're using the Compressor technique, do you use the presets that are included...for instance, if I were doing 1080i/60, would you recommend changing any of the settings or just leaving the preset as it is?

Thanks!
Casey

Quote

"Instant HD Advanced runs only in Adobe After Effects"

so this is of no use to me sad smiley
thanks anyway.


nick

Hey Nick...don't know if you are still working on this but InstantHD 1.1 (not advanced) works in FCP. Very minute difference - not noticable. Download the trial & check it out. Only $99.00 for the app:

[www.redgiantsoftware.com]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Thanks, Joey.

i actually bought a Red Giant bundle on special a little while back that included Instant HD.
so i probably will give that a go,
along with trialing the Boris "up-res"plugin

but as i get deeper and deeper into my new job,
i'm more inclined to just pass the workload off onto the post house.
they've offered to do some tests, so we'll see what they come up with.

i'll be watching closely, though.
it's a big shop that should know better,
but the path they suggested for my film didn't inspire a huge amount of confidence.
we'll be working on that...


thanks again,
nick

Good luck, nick. I am sure you will be keeping a close eye on things

Cheers

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

stumbled here /w google - this seems to be the only thread with real-life comparisons of different software uprez options.

as for my experience: instant hd advanced seems to be the best one out there. boris upRez destroys graphics. 2nd best i've seen is avid's scaling using the polyphase resizer.

the question - i'm rescaling a film-originated 4by3 PAL sd to 16by9 PAL sd, with a bit of zooming into the frame, and i'm unsure what the ideal settings for the instantHDadv sliders & media settings would be. source media is interlaced, but it's interlaced PAL, e.g. the fields are both of the same frame of film.

judged by the eye i get best results by using a 50fps comp on ae, e.g. separating the fields - smoother, less jagged edges. ae's "interpret footage" settings don't seem to have any effect, suspect the plug-in ignores them (checked this /w difference matte) but i'd also like to conceptually understand what exactly is happening /w 50fps comp compared to using a 25fps comp that would be more "default". in using 50fps comp, am i replacing actual information with interpolated calculations?

the picture below is a difference matte between 25/50fps scaling - /w photoshop auto-levels applied to make a bit more sense of it.

views? wisdom? anyone?

Shane, O Wise One.

I have to get something from DVD to 1080p.

Please tell me your uprezzing secret.

You're dealing with a desperate man here. I have about 6 minutes of DVD stuff to convert.

I will be your slave for life.


Harry

Mpeg Streamclip out to 10 bit Uncompressed, SD same frame size as source. Then drop that into Compressor, set everything to best in frame controls.. Maybe increase the details slider...

Or you could go hardware on a Teranex or something...



www.strypesinpost.com

Strypes, many thanks for reply.

I was also going through MPEG Streamclip, but outputting straight to 1080p.

I'll try your method and compare. Appreciated.

Maybe Shane has yet another method and we can have a shootout for saving crappy shots.

Remember that I'm coming from DVD.

Best

Harry

>I have to get something from DVD to 1080p.

Ugh..are you serious? You will be taking something that was captured, edited, compressed for DVD, then extract that SD compression and try to blow it up to 1080p? That will NOT look good.

The best method would be to take to a post facility with a Terranex and have them do the upconvert. At least that will look decent. The next thing would be to take a feed from a DVD player into a Kona 3 and upconverting that way. Then lastly do what Strypes said...export as 10-bit UC and then either use Instant HD to upconvert (make sure you rip this PROGRESSIVE for this to work), or use Compressor, making sure to set all of your frame controls in the INSPECTOR to BEST. Trick is to click on the SPROCKET and turning frame controls ON first, THEN you have access to all the options.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Thanks very much fort the advice.

Best

Harry