Re: Suggestions for inexpensive WinXP Pro, Video Edition/Capture Software.

Hi All:

* I'm looking for low cost WinXP Pro, video edition software, for a single purpose.

* Capturing the output of MINI DV tapes, to be reproduced by a consumer grade camcorder, and transferred via the camera's: iLink, 1394a, ?OHCI compliant? firewire port cable/connected to a "standard" PC/PCI 1394a/b port to a WinXPPro PC running ?capture-competent? video edition software.

* My experience is that some video editing apps are "better" at "capturing" 1394a camcorder output (full resolution, no dropped frames, etc.) to hard disk than others.

* Suggestions on best/lowest cost windows video editing software for the purpose outlined above would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Why does it have to be Windows? This is a FCP forum and FCP can do ths job with both hands tied behind its back and one eye closed.

Even FC Express can do this in its sleep.

Yeah, I think you're not very likely to find what you need here. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that people who volunteer their time and expertise to a Final Cut Pro message board probably don't do a whole lot of this sort of thing on Windows.

If they do, I bet it's on Avid.

Just use Movie Maker. It comes free with Windows. Its a nice piece of software for what you will be doing.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Using the built-in Windows movie editing program is the "least expensive" you can get.

But if you want a good program that is Windows happy, then Premier Pro and there are several other low cost" options.

Google Away!

Hi Hardworking lafcpug Videographers:

My previous post about looking for PC (horrors?????) video application to capture MINI DV is b/c my mainline machines (Macs) are in constant use for production so the unused PC's I have are equal to the Mac for this purpose, and are most importantly are: available. Thus the "non-sequitur" PC-Centric questions on a Mac-Centric forum.

* I have MINI DV footage of:

* The massive demonstrations (I shot a million people in the streets) Spain/Barcelona against the 2nd Iraq, war, interviews w/some of Spain's finest artists/intellectuals,anarchists, etc..

* Total transfers time: 125 hours +- of MINI DV. Not enough to warrant buying a MINI DV player since I no longer work w/mag tape. I shoot digitally.

* I want to capture the MINI DV material (currently on tape) onto a jumbo HDD and either backup by spanning DL DVD media, or getting Blu-Ray Hware and media and doing a 1:1 to conversion: 1 (or maybe (2) MINI DV's @ BluRay-disc.

A) Strategy: get a "lightly" used (I know there internal clocks for on time/"use" which would he great if I can get the key-presses) MINI DV camcorder.

B) Get a lite version of inexpensive but RELIABLE PC software for capturing from Camcorder to PC via: FW/iLink
========================================================================
Michael: thank you for your attention and suggestion to use Movie Maker (whihc is theoretically) "bolted" into XP Pro..

Reality doesn't seem to be that simple: "bolting" probably requires the dread SP3 "upgrade" which as far as tell at this point is a can of worms.
It may be possible to "manually" install MMP on XP Pro but from what I've read as a capture app esp in the codec area it's lacking. So I'm trying to:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
* Nail down the best MINI DV camcorder (example: eBay special) for under $200., that'll serve well as FIREWIRE/iLINK capture "host" device that'll hold up long enough to transfer 125 hrs of fMINI DV footage and:

* Identify a low end/"competent" PC app for MINI DV FW/iL capture.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For those that wonder why anyone would post a question involving PC's on this board: many of the LAFPCUG video VETERANS have used PC's extensively and this post is intended to (hopefully) "mine" their experience, allowing me to can get on with arduous job of transferring 125 hrs of vid. to HDD, instead of trial and erroring my way there.

Just for the record: I TOO USE: FCP, as well as LOGIC 8, CS3, DVD Pro, etc..

Just researching consumer MINI DV camcorders is a daunting process. Choosing a a good bang for the buck Camcorder, out of dozens of candidates is an overwhelming task, at least for me.

So for those of you offering positive solutions: thanks in advance.

Thank you Michael for taking time to give one ptoentially viable sggestion!

Thanks in ADVANCE to anyone offering definitive information.

Regards,

Glen

OK, so if you're going to actually edit on macs, make sure you get something that can capture Quicktime .mov. It would suck to capture it all and then have to convert it all to actually use it.

I never said I was horrified that you wanted to use a PC. I just wondered why you came to an FCP forum to ask us what PC program you should use to do a job that we well know can be done easily on a cheap FCE system.

If you had explained like you did in this last post, then you probably would have got more sensible answers to begin with. I have nothing against PCs, people who use them or programs that run on them.

Personally, I think you're buying into more problems than you need by using cross-platform capture, but it surely can be done, if that's what you want.

Also, pretty much any camcorder will do for this job. The quality of the transfer machine has no bearing on the quality of the images, as it is transferred as code, not pictures. As long as the physical mechanisms last, the quality of the transfer will be accurate to what was shot.

¡Mil Perdones!

I have no idea what that means.

Clarification:

¡Mil Perdones!

= Excuuuuuuuse Me!!!! +-

En Español literally = 1k Apologies.

To Mike: "Reply back to forum thread and not by email. That way people can read your response."

He responded to you Jude via email which meant only I could read his response. So I wrote him back to ask him to post back to forum thread.

riff

If you wish to continue to get help you must post back to this forum thread and not by email.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Oh. I never got that email.

Riff, I'm kind of grumpy at you. You're being really rude to people who are trying to help you, for nothing, in their spare time.

To me, it's like you've come into a car forum and said "I need rollerskates. What kind of rollerskates should I get?"

Everyone blinks a bit, and then says. Why are you asking about rollerskates in a car forum? Why not just drive a car? One person says 'Try a Skate shop'.

Then you get offended by this and come back telling everyone that they are rude to assume that rollerskates are inferior, and that you need the rollerskates for a stunt where they are being pulled behind a car, so there!

Also, you add, the Skate shop would be a good idea but it's too hard to get to.

And one more thing, you often drive cars, bikes and even a truck! So you people are incredibly rude to suggest that I'm an idiot who only rides on rollerskates!

I reply that if you'e using them in conjunction with a car you need them to be able to withstand going at high speed. Since I know nothing about rollerskates, I leave it at that.

Then you get offended again.

I imagine there is some kind of language barrier here, but I also think you should freakin pull your head in. No one was trying to say anything bad about you, your gear or your choices.

Methinks maybe you need a PC forum, friend. Adobe Premiere to be exact:

[www.adobeforums.com]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

You might look at Premier Elements 7 for cheap cross-platform. Or just Premier Pro.
You would need to go to an appropriate forum to find out what capture formats are available that can be passed on to FCP if that is what you intend to edit with.

I have Premier Pro for Mac as part of an Adobe bundle though I have not used it except to look at the editing interface. I started it up and opened the capture window with a project set for SD-DV and there it comes up with a Quicktime capture preset. So it looks on the surface as though you could capture into Quicktime but it's up in the air whether it would open in FCP or whether the PC version has the same capture presets.

You might ask on Adobe's forums or on the Cow. People there might know whether the Elements version can capture to QT as well.

Of course you could get a copy of Avid Express Pro and go cross-platform as well

would the super cheap (for students) Avid MCSoft be solution?

i guess the rock bottom of the issue is what PC solution can capture Mac friendly Quicktime.

which would involve a certain amount of testing

it's all too hard, not to mention the danger of setting yourself up for a fall.
id just rent a mac with FCP (laptop or anything) from a friend willing to give you a good deal.


nick

Hi Jude:

Please believe me when I say: I am very appreciative of ALL of the advice above. I have never felt minutely negative toward anyone on the Forum, only grateful for the informed responses. I don't see my: the PC/consumer MDV-CC as "roller-skates", versus a Panasonic (other brand) DVX-200 as a "car".

To me: they're all TOOLS. Different quality/capability envelops, but certainly not totally unrelated or mutually exclusive. I'm sure many forum members have done excellent work w/a PC and a consumer CC, before, after, or concurrently w/the work they've done w/an 8 core Mac Pro running Final Cut Studio 2. It's this rich, layered knowledge/mastery I?d like to tap for a few seconds.

The Mil Perdones! shtick was intended humorously, as Mike was simply pointing out I wasn't using the board "properly".

What I get from your most recent post is that: my PC centric approach makes the post nonsequitir, this combined w/the detail I request assistance w/in selecting a MDV-CC, is sort of "greedy", over the top?

I'd bet a large sum that there's at least one "vet" on this board that can ID the best consumer MDV-CC to be found (used: eBay/Craigslist, venues) for $200 and below, marketed new in the last 3 yrs+-, in the blink of an eye. OTOH: my only experience w/MDV-CC's is w/the Panasonic DVX-100, the camera all my MDV footage ws shot with. Certainly I could: do the research & A/B comparisons required for "competent" shopping, on my own, and add to that hours invested in trial & error. Versus a finger snap and a post's worth of time to give me a "definitive answer".

I've been on the other side of questions like mine and have happily shared/offered what I knew, and whatever caveats about the potential inadequacies of the info I presented, to be a responsible "adviser".

So: if in your opinion (as a moderator) the post is inappropriate because it's about PC s.ware posted on a Mac/FCP centric board (a poll to determine the % of how many Mac/FCP users have some kind of WinXPPro, etc. "PC" capability + s.ware installed on their Mac/FCP machines would, IMHO, reveal a significant % run OSX AND WINx, on the same box), and the q's re: cheap best bang/buck MDV-CC's are excessive you are welcome to: delete the post, close the thread, bar me from the forum, etc..

I'm simply attempting to tap into a tremendous knowledge base/talent reservoir that can provide answers, saving me many hours of research, and in addition providing collegial head's up on the various pitfalls possible "solutions" may present. I thought that's what the fundamental purpose of communities like lafcpug was.

Regardless: I've never intentionally been offensive nor have I taken ANY offense from responses, emails, etc..

I hope the above is useful.

Regards,

riff

P.S. Thanks: grafixjoe (maybe Creative Cow as well?), Sprocketz & Nick Meyers for your excellent suggestions. I'll start eval'ing them immediately.

>>if in your opinion (as a moderator) the post is inappropriate because it's about PC s.<<

No. - it seems to be your opinion that I think that the post is inappropriate. You are the one who keeps jumping to the conclusion that I'm saying your equipment is no good, or your idea is wrong, or that we shouldn't talk about PCs.

I've not ever said that. You just never said why you were asking about it in here, and that made it weird. There are a million other places you could have asked, and to me it seemed like you got immediately defensive about it. Saying 'Exuuuuuse me' seemed kind of like a rebuke to me, especially when I never saw the email it was in response to.

The rollerskates concept was never meant to be a slur on your equipment either. Perhaps I should have said you were looking for a jet plane or a rocket or a ... submarine. I was just trying to find some equipment that would need to interact with a car for the purposes of the analogy.

Anyway, I hope you find what you need.

Hi Jude:

I appreciate your best wishes as to getting my s/h ware issues resolved. I took no offense at your roller-skate/car analogies. Maybe still, I misunderstood what you were getting at.

As to the creation of this thread on lafcpug:
* This is the first pro video brd I'd come across back in the day.
* Michael Horton was obviously a committed, straight-shooting video professional, who was honestly enthusiastic about the brd., his work, the elements of that work, and how he could create a "community" of like minded people to pool intellectual/experiential resources.
* I registered w/lafcpug, and have always used lafcpug as the #1 resource for researching video related issues, regularly encountering top professional exchanges for things video, regardless of h.ware platform, or strictly speaking even the s.ware (FCP obviously) platform.
* I periodical visit the board and am completely confident that here I will find top notch people w/top notch advice regardless of h/s ware specifics, as long as the posts hand are "focussed" on video topics.

So that's why posted here as opposed to searching/discovering other similar (PC-centric) fora which would qualitatively be unknown commodities to me for some time. Time I can ill afford to direct in such a way, esp. when a "sure" thing, lafcpug is close at hand.

Thank you for your work as moderator & thank all of you that have made considered suggestions, while also throwing in the relevant caveats.

Have a great day all!

Regards,

riff

The general rule of thumb is to try to avoid shifting between different kinds of workstations. Avid is one solution, then probably Adobe CS3 (with Premiere, AE, and Photoshop so you can at least cook up something). May not be that cheap, comparatively, as FCS has been THE affordable solution for a high quality NLE workstation. If you're looking for something that moves very well between fcp and pc based editing systems, that would be a pretty tough to find, and I won't trust it to read the effects generated by another workstation.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote

The general rule of thumb is to try to avoid shifting between different kinds of workstations.

Sometimes "Rule of Thumb" is that you have no choice (I am working on both Mac FCP & PC Avid Adrenaline HD in the same suite).

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.