Playback Problem

This happens on occassion and, frankly, has me completely perplexed. I imported video material into FCP, edited it, and converted the final short film to mpeg-4 in order to burn DVDs (which I did successfully). I then wanted to make a DVCam backup of all of the mpeg-4 material, so I imported them into a New Project, laid them on the timeline, and tried to play them (no render lines are present). The timeline plays fine in my Viewer, but freezes on my NTSC monitor through my DSR-20 (which means it is freeze-framing in the DSR-20 as well). I cannot get any of the movies to play properly in order to make the tape backups. Do you have any idea why this occassionally occurs, and what can be done about it?

FC Studio
G5
1.7 processor
OS X 10.4.11

That sounds like a highly problematic workflow. Can I ask some questions?

Why are you going to MPEG-4 before converting to MPEG-2 for DVD?

Why do you want to convert a compressed output copy to DV for mastering instead of mastering to your deck right out of your original timeline?

How are you dropping MPEG-4 material ? which Final Cut cannot handle ? into a DV timeline and playing it back at all without rendering it first?

Well, here's what I had been advised need be done on this kind of project. I had four 6-minute films I needed to make into one mov. clip. The films were extracted from a DVD using DVxDVD. Everthing played fine on my NTSC monitor. After I put all four films into my timeline and did a little cleanup on them, I created a single mov. file using mpeg-4 (I was advised by others not to use H.264 for this). It is that single mov. file, comprised of all four shorter shows, that I am having problems with. Should I have used a different codec that mpeg-4 for this? Addressing one of your points, yes, when I dropped this mov. file into FCP, a window did come up telling me it was in a different format and di I wish to continue. I indicated that I did wish to continue, but thought, in that the mov. file played fine on the viewer, that FCP cold and would handle the conversion. Apparently, not. What can I do now to correct things?

First, your original question: If you put the MPEG-4 into an FCP timeline but then said "Yes" to "make the sequence fit the clip's settings", then you have a Sequence in some kind of MPEG-4 codec. No rendering simply means your sequence and clip are at the same settings; it doesn't mean you can play it externally. If you put that movie file into a Sequence set to DV NTSC and then rendered, then you'd get external playback.

However, like Jeff, I have some global problems with your general workflow.

> I created a single mov. file using mpeg-4 (I was advised by others not to use H.264 for this)

I don't get that. As far as I can tell the older MPEG-4 codec is just H.264, except less economical, not as good looking.

But:

> when I dropped this mov. file into FCP, a window did come up telling me it was in a different
> format and di I wish to continue

That means you're taking already heavily compressed footage from video DVD, putting it into an FCP timeline, spitting out yet another heavily compressed movie file (whether it's H.264 or MPEG-4) in a format (MP4 wrapper, whether it's H.264 or not) that isn't editing-friendly, then re-importing it into FCP yet again. That last part makes absolutely no sense. Why would you put the media through two more layers of compression?

Let's go back to the beginning.

1. First off, you shouldn't be using video DVDs as your source footage to begin with. Where did the film come from? Is it not an option to recapture an online version from that? What archiving did you do when you'd first finished the film? Did you make a self-contained, full-quality movie file? Did you make a tape master? Both of those steps are what I'd consider non-negotiable for finishing a film.

2. If your raw footage is only available on a video DVD, then extract it, but use a high-quality, editing-friendly codec, such as Uncompressed SD, or at least DV NTSC.

3. Edit, colour-correct, add effects and titles etc. as you need, on a Sequence that has the same codec as your extracted clips (eg. Uncompressed SD or DV). Now export a full-quality, self-contained movie file, still staying in the high-quality codec.

4. Use that movie file as the basis for tape output as well as DVD encoding. If you need MPEG-4s for whatever purpose (e-mailing, playing on the web, YouTube...), make an MPEG-4 copy from that high-quality movie file. That's how you archive things. The MPEG-4 isn't even close to good enough as an archival copy for work purposes. Its only purpose in life is for showing people in a low-quality (eg. web) setting.

Given that you're trying to get a DV tape master, you shouldn't have to go Uncompressed SD. Re-extract the media from video DVD in DV NTSC codec and work with that. Better yet, go back to the online of your film(s) and make high-quality clips from the masters.


www.derekmok.com

Thanks, guys. Not answering "yes" does allow me to render and play. Often, as with this project, I only have material sourced on DVD, coming from other parties. I am reading your response carefully. Terrific advice. Although I have been editing on FCP for over twn years, I am relatively new at using material extracted from DVDs, so you'll have to forgive my ignorance. One question. If I only have a DVD as a source, can I extract it with a program like DVDxDV or Mac the Ripper and indicate the best format for extraction?
From this point on, I will use only mpeg-2 when converting materials to mov. files. Thanks, again.

> If I only have a DVD as a source, can I extract it with a program like DVDxDV or Mac the Ripper
> and indicate the best format for extraction?
> From this point on, I will use only mpeg-2 when converting materials to mov. files.

MPEG-2 still doesn't make sense. You can't edit with it and it's yet another compressed format.
If the best original source you can find is a video DVD, then extract using DV NTSC (which fits your system) or Uncompressed 10-bit SD, and retain those clips as your new masters. You won't make it look better than the video DVD (Garbage In, Garbage Out), but at least you'll be able to preserve more of the quality, and those formats are more editing-friendly.

Mac the Ripper only removes copy protection (and it's pretty outdated; I've been told it doesn't work on some newer DVDs). MPEG Streamclip is my preferred software for extracting from DVD.


www.derekmok.com

As Derek wrote, just get MPEG STREAMCLIP

[www.squared5.com]

Than once you install that software ( which is really, really really, light but so efficient ) take the DVD you are using as master and copy the TS in a new folder on your MAC.

From that copy, Drag and drop the TS in MPEG STREAMCLIP.

Now you will be able to choose tiny part of your footage directly in MPEG STREAMCLIP if you want, using the same IN and OUT command as FCP. But in your case i understand you need all the footage from that DVD so once the TS is in MPEG STREAMCLIP just go to the file menu and choose export to quicktime. As Derek pointed out, choose the DV/DVCPRO NTSC codec.

Now you'll have a .mov as master, in a friendly editing codec.

<<<I've been told it doesn't work on some newer DVDs).>>>

No, it doesn't. The top movies (Wall-E) are in a new format that resists easy management.

"Now extracting 35GB."
"The disk has intentionally damaged sectors. What would you like to do?"

Koz

>>"The disk has intentionally damaged sectors. What would you like to do?" <<

I'd like the address of the people who designed it, please. I have something for him/her/it/them.