OT, but editing-related

Do any of the Mac gurus here know if, talking about the last of the aluminium MacBook Pros (the model immediately preceding the new ones), whether the 800 and 400 FireWire busses are separate busses, or are they two different connectors hooking up to the *same* bus?

TIA, kl

All Macs...regardless of how many ports they have...have one firewire bus. MacPros, MacBook Pros, iMacs, mac mini. All have one firewire bus.


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Even the big quad- and eight-core Macs? I didn't know that (my quad-core has two 800 and three 400 FW ports, from memory, so I assumed the two different speed FW connectors were porting to two busses, anyway). Very interesting. cheers, kl

Sorry Kit they are all single busses regardless of Mac

If you want a separate FW bus get a FW800 card...

PCI-X PowerMac, PCIe MacPro or Express34 adaptor for MacBookPro.



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Quote

Even the big quad- and eight-core Macs?

Yes...one bus. That is why you need a FW800 card for the PCIe slot - which is on a separate bus.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Thanks guys: very helpful. I am trying to build a mobile editing platform that I can take to the gym where we will make YouTube clips; and I would much prefer to capture to an external FW drive than onto the system disk.

The current camera (Canon HV-30) has a reputably v. slow FW bus speed (I have heard 100-odd Mbits/s thrown around on various forums, but have not been able to find any more info. than that) and I don't want any L&C problems, hence the inquiry re. separate busses (I saw the separate connectors on the older-model MBPs). Thanks all.

You shouldn't get any issues - I certainly don't on my MBP either with FW400 to Cam and FW800 to HDD or Cam via HDD via FW800 or 400.

But if you are worried or get an issue then get one of these: [www.sonnettech.com]



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Thank you all; that is perfectly clear now. kl

Actually, before you buy a FW card, make sure that you actually NEED a separate card. No point spending cash where you don't need to.

There is only 1 PCI controller on the Macs, yes. But connection speed only slows down to that of the slowest device in the port, depending on how the devices are arranged. This is is why many of us are able to hook up one FW deck (100 Mb/s device), and a FW drive on a separate port. DV/HDV should be able to work, I'm not too sure about DvcproHD (I kinda doubt it, as DvcproHD requires more sustainable speed).

Quote

The transfer speed is determined by the slowest device that is involved in transferring the data from source node to destination node. It is therefore advisable to place slower devices as leaves in the tree. This way, they don't slow every operation down, but only those where they are the source or destination of a transfer.

[www.faculty.iu-bremen.de]



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So, let me get this straight (and I think that, physically, this is the only way to do this on my current MB): re. the 'leaves on a tree' analogy: first on the FW cable is the camera (4-pin to standard FW 400 cable); next is the external drive, and then FW 400?FW400 into the MB.

And if the camera is 100Mbits/sec, then that must be both the speed of the L&C transfer, so this should all work.

Any recommendations on FW drives (I assume one with the Oxford chipset, and 7,200rpm), and not bus powered? I was looking at a LaCie "Rugged" that had these specs, and it's pretty small, too. Cheers, kl

Hiya Kit,

I wouldn't definitely NOT daisy chain an I/O (Camera) to a drive to the laptop. You may run into performance issues on long takes. On a MBP, I would connect the camera to the FW port on the motherboard and the external drive (self-powered...not bus powered) to a FW800 Express34 card.

Looking at LaCie? DON'T (do a forum search and grab some popcorn for some entertaining reading). Look at the CalDigit VR FW drives. Best in class in my opinion (I own 2 CalDigit units).

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Yes, it all should work, but try it out. There's more to it- FW 400 is half duplex, and FW is a chatty protocol on the whole.

And probably you could avoid the LaCie.



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I don't think our text options go quite big enough, but here goes...

There now follows a warning...

WARNING!! DO NOT BUY A LACIE HDD - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!


That was an official warning (my opinion not the opinion of the LAFCPUG).

Oh and here comes another one...

WARNING!! DO NOT BUY A MAXTOR HDD - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!


or any HDD with Maxtor mechs...



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Thanks, Gerard, Ben and Joey; that's very helpful (I already have had the 'Maxtor experience'; I was quite active on this board some time ago, before any of the current crew of helpful moderators, and remember *that* one very well).

I will check out the recommended drive, too. I have about 2.5Tb on the desktop, divided between stills and DV, but the portable FW drive is a new requirement and I appreciate the heads-up. cheers, and good night, kl

That certainly was a loud warning, Ben. Tell us how you really feel ;-)

I love LaCie's for DV work.

They've been very reliable for me. I have lots of them. Only two died on me in ten years.

I take care of them, and they take care of me.

When I abuse them with hgh bandwidth work, wall electricity, moisture, transporting one in the trunk without a soft cushion, or dropping one, or not doing an occasional DiskWarrior pass, they may bite me. What else is new?

I like the efficient-looking new wavy heat sink case design on the D2's.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Apply your default audio transition instantly
with Command-Option - T !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Excellent Ben

Can you put in some code that will make the red text * BLINK * ? THAT would be perfect...



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I hear ya Loren but we'll never agree on this...

Quote

Only two died on me in ten years

In all my time (well over 20 years!) using HDDs none of the other manufacturers HDDs have died on me, nada, zip, zilch, zero. Only Maxtor and especially LaCie. Even though the other manufacturer's HDDs have been used far more - in some cases many 1000s of days more than the LaCies before they broke!

Most LaCie cases are simply too poor when it comes sufficiently cooling the HDDs within, also many units shipped with dodgy bridge-boards / connectors that become loose even with normal use (something G-Tech fell foul of once they got cheap and cut corners!).

Because LaCie used Maxtor mechs within (hopefully aren't still using them!) the chance of a failure is much higher than with any other manufacturer that I have tried...

...and I have tried many!

Personal experience aside - its not the popularity of LaCie's HDDs that makes them a higher percentage of problems posted regarding HDDs its bad design and poor choice of Mechs - pure and simple.

You don't see G-Tech or CalDigit using Maxtor do you?

There is a reason for this and its not cost...



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Maybe the new d2's will perform better regarding the heat dissipation with the heat sink design - obviously LaCie admitting a design flaw by adding this!

However, if they are still using Maxtor I will not recommend them as this is really the main stumbling block.

So I will leave it up to you to tell me what they have inside when you next LaCie breaks and you open it up to transfer to a spare slot in your Mac to see if it was the mech, bridge-board or just overheating case!



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A sexy heat sink is not gonna do diddly if they still insist on using garbage drives...period.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I have had 4 Lacies fail on me. The only 4 lacies I owned. I have had two of the three G-RAIDS I own fail on me. But I still have the first two firewire drives I ever bought...EZQuest drives, 80GB and 120GB. Rock solid performers.

I also have 3 Caldigit units...FirewireVR, S2VR Duo and HD One. ONly a minor issue with the eSATA unit (S2VR Duo), that was fixed when I configured it properly with the software.

And avoid MYBOOK drives.


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The Caldigit drives recommended here look excellent, and seem to be priced competitively. I have about 8 of the LaCie D2s and none has failed yet, so far. As we all know, it's only a matter of time, and this is one of the reasons I still favour tape being in the workflow somewhere. Cheap and reliable.

Re. the Caldigits: how do folks use the VRs? As a RAID 1, or 0 for the throughput? cheers, kl

Kit,

I think that question particularly pertains to your individual workflow & whether or not you're manually backing up and have a need for maximum throughput, RAID 0 ok in that situation, or you need protection and can sacrifice some througput, RAID 1 would be recommended there.

The above being the setup for the 2 bay low cost CalDigit VR for Prores, P2 DVCPROHD or other Uncompressed SD workflow.

Also there's the question of how much are you willing to spend. An HDOne with 8 drives, Shane has one, affords you RAID 5 protection with no sacrifice in speed, again, depends on what your workflow & wallet can afford.

I use 1 as RAID "0" (performance) for work and the other as RAID "1" (protected - mirrored) for backup. As the backups get full, pop them both out & purchase 2 new BIGGER drives / sleds and slide them in & keep going!

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Joey: that is exactly what I was thinking. And, Jon@Caldigit; thanks for that input, too. I had a long look at yourt offerings on BHPhotovideo's site last night, and I am sure there is a system for my needs there. Thanks to all, kl

Jon is the man. He always does right by his customers

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Ben King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> WARNING!! DO NOT BUY A LACIE HDD - YOU HAVE BEEN
> WARNED!!

Agreed on suicidal tendencies of LaCie - I wish I'd found a thread like this last month when mine went down. Didn't know about CalDigit. I bought a Glyph raid. It's been great so far. Anybody had experience with Glyph? Hope I'm not looking at trouble down the road.

When buying a RAID, the first thing you need to do is ask Customer Support what manufacturers' drives are inside the unit. If they can't tell you, ask to be transferred to Tech Support. If they can't tell you, RUN AWAY. If they have Maxtor or Western Digital Drives in them, RUN AWAY SCREAMING.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Last I looked LaCie was using Western Digital inside. I felt alright about that because I boot from them in my aging G4 Quicksilver. The tower, like all drives, is plugged into an UPS with AVR -- and they always have. Plus newer Quadra D2's provide FireWire cables with arresters on one or both ends.

Again, I use these only for low bandwidth work, for which I find them ideal, and always have. You won't find me using them for DVCPro HD, Uncompressed anything, or even ProRes422 work. And I promise I won't even use the eSata ports on the D2's, I'll go right to CalDigit and Seagates like everybody else.

So there. ;-)

Loren on location

Quote

Last I looked LaCie was using Western Digital inside

Well thats a start... they are marginally better than Maxtor - I've never personally had an issue with them but I now people who have.

Hopefully some of the guys at LaCie see these threads and take note - don't sell cheap just because you can - use good quality components that provide users with reliable products that we will in turn recommend.

Turning a profit at the expense of the hard working editor/production company is not something I look kindly upon!

I like the companies that look after their customers from the outset and not simply provide backup for substandard products.

I'm annoyed that Seagate own a majority of Maxtor but obviously haven't applied the same level of quality to them...



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