Converting SxS cards from source to ProRes

Hi guys,
I am wondering if there is a way to convert footage from SxS cards in ProRes directly from the source.

The guy who shoot the footage, drop the cards at my job so i have no access to the camera, i know i could go straight from the SDI out of the cam in a KONA card than captured it in prores but as i mentionned i dont have acces to the camera.

I know that you can convert footage from P2 Cards and AVCHD cards in prores via the LOG and Transfer window in Final Cut but theres no option for SxS Cards. Im wondering if there is a plug-in made from SONY that i am not aware of that would just do that.

THX in advance guys and since it has been a long time since my last visit on the site...well...lol...i wish everybody a great 2009 !

You can import them using a MacBookPro (or I believe an PCIe ExpressCard reader installed on a MacPro) and the software from Sony but I haven't tried doing a transcode to ProRes from source - I generally get them over first as a backup then transcode in FCP.

I don't have any to hand at the moment so I can't check myself.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

...I'm sorry Francois-Michel...what's are "SxS cards"?

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

[letmegooglethatforyou.com]

;-)

Very funny, monkey.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Just couldn't resist. Sorry, man.

Besides...kinda like to hear it from the OP. Some folks abbreviate and I just don't know what they are referring to. Just gettin' OOOOOld I guess...

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

There is a nice video on SXS cards and a cool adapter for them at Macvideo.tv by our friend Rick Young
[www.macvideo.tv]

More on SXS cards
[www.dpreview.com]

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Dean

"When I see you floating down the gutter I'll give you a bottle of wine."
Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica.

Thank ya Dean for those helpful links I learned something new today!

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Just to add... I've heard stories about these going through a friend's wash and coming out sprinkly clean with no data loss (not something i'll advice, though).



www.strypesinpost.com

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Just to add... I've heard stories about these going through a friend's wash and coming out sprinkly clean with no data loss (not something i'll advice, though).

I did that to my iPod shuffle as well and it still works. The battery was dead when it happened though so that may have saved it.

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Dean

"When I see you floating down the gutter I'll give you a bottle of wine."
Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica.

Ok here is my normal workflow guys and why i wanna transcode those BPAV folder into ProRes and not the default codec.

First i got the adaptor (USB) hooked up on a MAC for reading and transfering those cards. When i receive a card, i back up all BPAV folders on a back up drive Identifying which cards is which and the date and...you got the point.

Than i open a project in FCP, hit apple-shift-8 to open the LOG and TRANSFER window and choose the BPAV folder i wanna import. I previously set my SCRATCH in the drive of the project. That way i got an original copy of the BPAV folder of the card (which will be erased) and transcoded metadata in .mov files on the project drive.

In the LOG and Transfer window, i got some options to convert (transcode) P2 files(metadata) codec or AVCHD, from the source card into ProRes. But there is no option for SxS cards...?

The reason i wanna d the transcode is because we ran into several problems with the codec of those cards.

I read a lot about that codec and what i can understand is that codec is something like a grow up of the HDV codec, same type of LONG GOP but a bit better.

The problem came when we were about to render the online :

First : Depending on wich MAC we render those onlines, it says ''Conforming MPEG-2'' or the good old "Writing Video". Thats a bit weird cuz settings are the same on both machine and you guessed they are both MAC PRO.

Second : We experienced on both MAC PRO severals crashes when it was time to render, specially when there is ANIMATION files on the timeline.

But here is the weird part. When its time to output the show on tape (HDCAM SR) i do a SCQTM of the final ONLINE SEQUENCE, strip the mix on it and output from that timeline. The show is a 22 minutes show and when it start my outptut FCP start a ''Writing Files'' thing of about nearly an hour. EVERYTHING is rendered ITS A SCQTM previously made from a RENDERED timeline.

Now more problems. If during my output, i spot something weird i have to stop the tape. For example, the show is 1 second too long, i got to cut in the bumper, do the cut, redo the output...boom ''wrinting files'' of about an hour again !

Everytime i cut in a SCQTM of that codec i got that problem, no matter the manipulation from that SCQTM i got that problem.

First i thought, if its a LONG GOP maybe FCP got to rcalculate everything, but why...its a SCQTM.

I am wondering why the ''wrinting files'' thing and if there is a way to avoid that...shiiii...codec.

THX in advance guys

Ah... Native editing, oh how i love thee...

I'm using the famous Jeff Harrell method for HDV- capture native, edit native, during finishing, swap the sequence to ProRes HQ (same frame size/frame rate), render out. No issues so far, and saves lots of space.

The alternate method which i'll use if I'm roundtripping to Color, is to MM/recompress to ProRes HQ after picture lock (or if I have the space, Uncompressed 10 bit).

Reason why it does the "writing video/conforming Mpeg2" thing, is because it has to reconform everything back to a fixed GOP structure. Rendering to an intra-frame-only codec solves that issue, not to mention, you maintain more of the quality when you render out to a 220 mb/s codec vs rendering to a 35 or 50 mb/s codec.



www.strypesinpost.com

>The battery was dead when it happened though so that may have saved it.

Careful... Won't want your lady getting an electric shock!

LAFCPUG tip of the day: Make sure you unplug all electric devices before sending them to the wash (not something I'll advice, of course).



www.strypesinpost.com

>I'm using the famous Jeff Harrell method for HDV- capture native, edit native, during finishing, swap the sequence to ProRes HQ (same frame size/frame rate), render out. No issues so far, and saves lots of space.

FWIW Thats not the famous JH method, thats the not so famous me and countless others method ;-)
The JH method is to edit the native clips directly in a ProRes sequence from the get go ... and may I just say that its a great method for the beefier macs as you'll still get good RT performance plus any intermediate renders will be preserved and used during a final Export to Quicktime Movie.

Francois

There is no direct ProRes transcode through Sony's Log and Transfer plugin for FCP, nor through Sony's XDCAM Transfer software, nor through their Clip Browser software ... nor through the Main Concept conversion packs that are available for Clip Browser.

Basically, as far as I know, there is currently no one-step procedure to take the raw MP4 files to ProRes.

Sorry its not better news.
Andy

Yeah, what Andy said. My workflow of choice is to cut HDV content (and everything else) into a ProRes timeline, because in the overwhelming majority of cases, I'm mixing HDV content with graphics shots in ProRes format.

And just to elaborate on one point: I rarely choose to render anything when I'm working. Almost everything I do can be played back in real time, either at full quality or at "preview" quality, and for my work, "preview" quality is just fine when I'm editing. But I do leave my timeline up when I go for coffee or to lunch or whatever, so Final Cut courteously renders everything for me while I'm away.

And as Andy said, once everything ? or at least mostly everything ? has been rendered, exporting is just a matter of copying frames from my render cache or my native ProRes media files into a Quicktime movie.

All in all, it works very well.

If you wanted to you could Media Manage all the transfers once they are in and transcode everything to ProRes CODEC in a different project.

Doesn't take too long even on a MBP.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

I won't advise transcoding with MM. Not until picture lock at least. This is because recompressing with media manager creates new clips that does not preserve the metadata of the original clip. It doesn't allow you to batch capture from a tapeless medium afterwards, not with P2, at least.



www.strypesinpost.com

Well G thats if you ACTUALLY use the metadata on the clips!

However after transcoding with MM any clip details such as reel and all notes are preserved in the FCP project the same way as for tape based media in the FCP file.

At the end of the day it is an option that can be used quite easily and I personally can't imagine I would need to "batch capture" from SxS cards as they are SOOOOOOoo damn expensive they are often transferred, the transfers checked, then the cards wiped ready for the next shoot.

SxS is not designed to be used as a long term storage medium. Plus they have not been extensively tested for this purpose.

...and yes, you should be able to re-link the XDCAM EX footage to the ProRes version as long as you don't change the filenames on either the original Transfer or the Transcoded version.

The only real problem is storage - if you have enough space its fine but ProRes is considerably larger than any of the rates on the XDCAM EX CODEC.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

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FWIW Thats not the famous JH method, thats the not so famous me and countless others method ;-)

The "Harrell Method" sounds quite good though.

Whereas the "Mees Method sounds a bit selfish

The "King Method" is already reserved for things that cannot be repeated here so I won't even bother sticking my name to that one



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

>Well G thats if you ACTUALLY use the metadata on the clips!

I still have the good ol' fall back to source tape mentality. Shoot P2, archive P2 files, log and transfer. If drive goes bust despite having redudancy and hot spares, batch capture from archived P2 files.

If you're recompressing with MM, I suppose you'll make a back up of the transcoded XDCAM EX footage (which takes up less storage than P2 formats in general, since they're only 35 mb/s), then relink the files.

And yea, i usually rename the clips during logging. There's a tendency that occasionally there may be duplicate file names when I'm working on lots of footage and in those cases FCP creates a file name that may not directly reflect the original P2 file. Also, i don't like having tens of thousands of randomly named clips in the finder.



www.strypesinpost.com

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And yea, i rename all the clips. There's a tendency that occasionally there may be duplicate file names when I'm working on lots of footage and in those cases FCP creates a file name that may not directly reflect the original P2 file.

You need to see how organised I am with my projects! The chances of overlap is so remote that it would take serious or deliberate human error to screw it up.

Ask Martin Baker when he asked me about Beta Testing Loader!

There is nothing so important than to have a good working structure to projects including booking, planning, creation/capture and filing et al.

Many years ago in the UK I worked very hard with the team in my company for accreditation and were awarded the first ever ISO standard for a Media Production company (according to the regulator).



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

>The chances of overlap is so remote that it would take serious or deliberate human error to screw it up.

Not exactly. I've seen it a few times in the last year, so has a few editors I talked to. In the last month of footage, there was at least 1 overlapping name (I knew it when I was shifting some files around before I logged them). But P2 reconnects with metadata, so that's not a big issue.

Personally, I see more pros in sticking to the original codec than transcoding. Keeping the original metadata is one, then there's storage.



www.strypesinpost.com

Well with P2 maybe but XDCAM-EX or other MPEG based CODECs are a pain in the posterior to edit with.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Ah. I only did finishing on an XDCAM-EX, and first thing I did was switch sequence codec to ProRes HQ. Completely eventless. I'll MM to ProRes HQ if I was going to Color, as I don't trust long GOP codecs to flourish on roundtrips.

I was under the impression that it's more efficient to cut native, and set render codec to ProRes (especially if you're not doing lots of effects), since they don't need a render to playback in full quality RT. However, exporting is probably a pain, and the only other export I did was QT conversion to H.264 for the audio house (i'll probably do QT conversion to DV/uncompressed SD if I have to export offlines to DVD).



www.strypesinpost.com

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I was under the impression that it's more efficient to cut native

That all depends on whether you like to do rough CC and transitions or FX when you are editing and whether you have the space and the system to handle it.

In my experience its been more helpful to have the media in the final CODEC where possible.

For instance HDV to DVCproHD is something I used to do all the time because HDV like other MPEG CODECs makes editing feel like you are back to the days of NuBus Mac on 1st Gen Avid adn long cigarette breaks on the fire escape to render a dissolve...



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Doesn't the render to ProRes option help? That should allow you to render the bits that require render to ProRes (dissolves, rough CCs, etc), skipping the lengthy conforming to mpeg2 for those bits and provide native playback in XDcam for bits that don't need rendering. Or is it slower on the G5s?



www.strypesinpost.com

LOL. The "Harrell Method" does have a certain ring to it (or so I've heard)

Ok so the only option would ''digitize'' or ''Capture'' clips from SxS cards into FCP.

Than select all the clips in the browser and do a BATCH EXPORT converting them in ProRes ?

Or the MM way.