Legal Supers in SD in HD

Does anyone know of any definitive resources on legal supers?

There are so many different opinions out there on what is needed, and I was wondering what the source for all of this information is. People usually say 22 scanlines (though I've heard anything from 18 to 24), but is this for SD only, or HD as well? If so, wouldn't an HD super look a lot smaller than an SD because there are 1080 scanlines in full HD as opposed to 525 in SD? There are a few plugins to easily check without going to the scopes, like dhLegaText, but these work in terms of pixels, what is the easiest way to convert to scanlines other than going back and forth with your scopes?

Also, how does this play into a commercial where you are doing an HD master with an SD downconvert, either centercut or letterboxed?

Any help or official documents on the subject would be appreciated.

but these work in terms of pixels, what is the easiest way to convert to scanlines

same same but different. see these threads on the cow:
[forums.creativecow.net]
[forums.creativecow.net]

Any idea how this would apply to down converts though? My other question, is that it doesn't seem to make sense that HD and SD would both have a 22 scanline legal requirement. If you put them on the same size screen, 22 pixels in SD will be much larger than 22 pixels in HD.

Josh, if you read through those threads it is suggested that the 22 scanline height is derived from the FCC stipulation that the minimum size for legal type is 4% of the active trasmitted signal ... which from NTSC equates to 20 ish scanlines, with the consequent 22/23 scanline norm being a simple erring on the safe side measure.

Don't know if there are separate guidelines for HD transmission, you should check the FCC site and see what you can find, but if you simply apply the SD transmission guidelines to your HD video then you're looking at about 45/46 scanlines for HD legal text.

Yeah, depends on the font and several other real world variables. If you do all caps, you could get away with 16 point, certainly in HD. Upper and lower case, no less than 18 point, and stay away from serif fonts (those little legs and pedestals on Times) use a sans-serif like Helvetica, and watch your luminance to avoid crawlies.

- Loren
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Does anyone actually know of a document that states this 4%, because I can't find anything on any sites that clearly state any of this and I would just feel better reassuring clients if I knew I had an FCC page that I was sourcing.

Josh

Some googling later and it seems the legal disclaimer text limitations appear to be derived from the specific rules laid down for sponsored political advertisements, as stipulated in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 47, Part 73.1212 (47 C.F.R. § 73.1212)

Quote

In the case of any television political advertisement concerning candidates for public office, the sponsor shall be identified with letters equal to or greater than four percent of the vertical picture height that air for not less than four seconds.

see here:
[www.fcc.gov]
and here:
[edocket.access.gpo.gov]

Its worth noting that these regulations are very specifically with regards to sponsorship identification in political advertising NOT commercial advertising. The FCC rule does not contain specific duration or height requirements for text sponsorship identification in commercial advertising.

But I also noted this advisory whilst I was googling around the subject, that seems to suggest such rules are under consideration:

Quote

Except for political broadcasts, there currently is no specific requirement for visual sponsorship identifications for commercial ads, other than that they be readable by the ordinary viewer. The Commission asks whether it should adopt the same requirement as for political ads: that the disclosure take up 4 percent of screen height and be on the screen for at least four seconds.

[www.dwt.com]

Hope this helps
Andy