OT - more dliemma sending to avid folks...

ok, more ongoing issues sending my footage (dvcproHD downconverted to SD) to an avid shop.

they asked me for "normal quicktime" i told them that that was not a format. then they said animation codec. i said fine. and exported my footage as SD animation codec. well it turns out they also cant read a mac formatted drive and are too dumb or too lazy to remedy that for themselves - but thats another story.

so i asked him to be specific about what type of footage he needed to make his world complete. and his replay was:

"Avid language for us is .mxf"

does that make any sense?

wouldnt an avid suite be best off with meridian or avid DV or DNxHD or whatever avid specific format?

>wouldnt an avid suite be best off with meridian or avid DV or DNxHD or whatever avid specific
>format?

I think Joey can talk more on this. Over here, it's almost always Digital Beta.... That's Avid language, also ProTools, etc...

I do think that if they get a QT DNxHD, they can import that quite easily into the Avids, which it will simply rewrap into an mxf wrapper.

>it turns out they also cant read a mac formatted drive and are too dumb or too lazy to remedy
>that for themselves

1. Get a copy of Paragon's NTFS4mac, then charge them for the hard drive since you won't have any use for an NTFS volume.
[www.paragon-software.com]

2. Or ask them to get MacDrive so they can read the HFS+ formatted volume.

3. Convince them that getting a MacPro serves their interest- they can run FCS, CS4, AVID, ProTools off a Mac..



www.strypesinpost.com

.mxf IS an Avid-specific format.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Well it depends what sort of MXF you're talking about- it's not cut and dried that MXF is only Avid-specific. It happens to be Avid's native format but it's not just Avid. MXF also happens to be the native format of most Panasonic DVCPROHD file based cameras. FCP doesn't support it directly out of the box but you can get a plugin to make it work such as:

[mxf4mac.com]

[dvfilm.com]

[www.calibratedsoftware.com]

I would highly recommend cutting with MXF using one of these plugins if you need to exchange edits and media with someone on an Avid- it will make your life a lot easier.

but media format is a different issue from disk format. It's true that a PC cannot read Mac OS disk format out of the box. It would help a lot to reformat your drive as Fat-32 or NTFS and then load the files. Then they will at least be able to load the drive. At that point it depends on the actual media you give them.

Short answer is it's rarely smooth or easy to exchange projects between Avid and FCP nor between Mac and PC. Compounding that with impatience on both sides just makes it worse. So talk to the producers and make sure they understand they are asking for a lot of extra busy work and if they want it to come together they need to let the Avid folks know to stop being lazy/stupid and they also need to support you with needed plugins.

Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
Editors Store- Gifts and Gear for Editors: [www.editorsstore.com]

It's just a wrapper that AVID uses instead of the outdated omf.

Panasonic also uses it for P2. I think because it's open source and good with metadata so it shows up in AVID's News playback and other non-edit hardware. Not sure how unlimited it is with codecs. DVCProHD, DV and all the DNxHD codecs can exist inside it so it's got that going for it.
Panny cripples it a little with their P2/Linux filesystem and 4gig file size limits so the P2store will never have more than a few hundred gig HD in it partitioned in tiny chunks.

Ask them what they're editing at (DNxHD???) and give them that in QT. Break it up over 30 CD's and make them rue the day they got so lazy as to have a PC AVID without MacDrive or at least a Mac on their local network.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Quote
Ask them what they're editing at (DNxHD???) and give them that in QT. Break it up over 30 CD's and make them rue the day they got so lazy as to have a PC AVID without MacDrive or at least a Mac on their local network.

yeah, thats kinda how i feel. ive asked them repeatedly to just send me one of their files and ill build an export preset to match it. BUT they are a primarily spanish speaking network AND their technology (as well as their understanding of it) is a little behind the times...

ive bought a drive specifically FOR them. formatted it fat32. so half the battle is over.

Wayne, you shoot P2, right? Get them the original P2 files, let them downconvert. OH, they might only want certain shots, so getting it to them in the P2 structure would be tough.

This is the issue with many Avid-heads. They say "I can only take XXX format. Get it to me in that format. I will not take any other format. It is up to YOU to get it to me in that format."

So from Mac to PC...and either QT or original MXF format...but SD instead of HD. And on a PC formatted drive. Not asking for MUCH, are they?

Download the Avid codecs and then export the files into that format for the Avid people.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Here's the link.

[www.avid.com]



www.strypesinpost.com

yep shane, thats right P2. and right again, its only certian clips they need.

i have the avid codecs. have had for nearly a year - but the link is appreciated none the less. the thing is that they apparently dont know what avid codec they need. ive asked repeatedly and as mentioned also asked them to just send me a clip. and they just cant seem to get their heads around what im asking... i have delivered in just about all avid flavors but they always complain something isnt right. its just in the last 10 days they were able to communicate the HFS/FAT32 issue.

everyone i know of SO handled the drive format issue like 8 years ago. it just never crossed my mind that a broadcast facility wouldnt have come across that and had it on their list of criteria by now...

ok, so it seems that animation compressed on a FAT32 drive is about the best i can do for them...

Quote

Well it depends what sort of MXF you're talking about- it's not cut and dried that MXF is only Avid-specific. It happens to be Avid's native format

...which is why they are asking for MXF...it's Avid's native format. Should have been clearer.

Anyway, I have never been asked to deliver in MXF format or even OMF. Sounds like a sour puss Avid Editor trying to make things difficult for anyone not using the "almighty Avid" (it's a job security thing these days). There's a lot of them out there. Avids can import many different formats and convert them to MXF on the way in. To ask for MXF is just breaking chops.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

...and if you've had the Avid codecs for nearly a year, you probably have antiquated versions. I would Download the new ones.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Quote
Sounds like a sour puss Avid Editor trying to make things difficult
and to be honest

i think joey's pretty near the mark. their work is pretty bad. the client as well as the agency sees the difference and there is talk about bringing the spanish work into my shop. problem is that they do the work for free - and i dont.

so i dont think they have any agenda to make my life any easier than they absolutely have to.

Quote
if you've had the Avid codecs for nearly a year, you probably have antiquated versions

that would be good advice. i'll do that.

DUDE! You have the camera! And a P2 card. You can get them the clips they want in the P2 file structure...but at their native resolution. All you need to do is connect the camera via firewire, go into THUMBNAIL mode, then press the THUMBNAIL BUTTON. Then launch FCP. Send the signal out to the camera. Have each clip in a separate timeline with a few frames of black. Now, press RECORD on the camera. Press PLAY on the timeline. This will record the signal from the timeline to the camera. When done, stop recording.

Do this for every clip. Now you will have a card with several clips, all the ones you sent out via firewire. New names, new timecode. Since P2 is FAT32 formatted, just offload the card onto a FAT32 formatted drive and give them the original. Let THEM deal with downconverting the footage. Unless they want to incur an added charge for downconverting.

If so, you can provide them the clips as Photo JPEG at 75% or 100% (75% is good enough) and then they can import that footage and that will convert it to the Avid MXF format. A shot bigger than 2GB? Use QT Pro to break it up into two parts. They will have to join these later. (Shows them for using PCs and its VERY RESTRICTIVE ways).


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

brilliant thought shane. i didnt know i could go out to cam/P2 like a VTR... that's going to be my next experiment. but only for my own education though - as to be honest, that process is WAY too much effort on my part (that i wont be compensated for) for people that arent making ANY effort to make my life easier.

im sure weve all been there before... : |

as a side note. there are like 80+ clips. is there any FCP shortcut to convert the clips into timelines? may be a rudimentary question. its just not something ive ever needed to do...

BTW. thanks to EVERYONE for the suggestions : )

and joey, i know that you and i often (sometimes emphatically) dont see eye to eye. i appreciate that you still jump in and try to help in my moment of need.

much simpler - but more expensive -- Automatic Duck will take everything - timeline and clips and convert them to AVID Friendly timeline -- easy -- I'm working with a client who wants the final product in the AVID quicktime codecs (easy and free to download but a very long conform out of the timeline from FCP) in split and mixed tracks - and now they want the timeline too and clips (mine are all XDCAM HD converted (re-wrapped) in quicktime. Automatic Duck - takes all of that and makes it look like it was edited on Avid - even converting audio to AIFF files and video to MXF - very nice and easy if you have to do a lot of this.

good thought. im a little unclear as to the ins and outs of the AD thing. do i understand correctly that it converts FROM fcp TO AVID - but NOT AVID to fcp?

No...it goes both ways:

Pro FCP Import: [www.automaticduck.com]

Pro FCP Export: [www.automaticduck.com]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.