Panasonic HVX200 settings

I'm starting work on my first Panasonic HVX200 project and wanted to get advice re: settings, pulldown,etc. because I'm having some issues. Once I import the media into FCP (using log and transfer) and I play back the media I get what looks like a pulldown problem, where every third frame or so the frame looks like two interlaced frames overlapped. There's a digital jaggieness to the image for those frames. I've tried adjusting my project settings, pulldown and field order but it never seems to get me to what I've been told should be 24 fps playback.

If I play the original (non imported) media in the log and transfer window it looks fine. Those original files have the following file settings:

Source: DVCPRO HD 1080i 60
Format: 1080p24
Shooting rate: 24
Video rate: 29.97
Pulldown: 2:3

When I try to cut the imported media into a FCP sequence it asks me to make the seq. into a 30 frame timeline. In FCP it says the media is 29.97. The DP said that the 24 P is somehow embedded" into the 60i.

I'm working in FCP 6.05. Intel dual. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

First thing you need from he DP is whether the footage was shot 24pA or 24p standard. That will determine what you need to do in FCP.

Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
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Your info is right there, the format he shot was 1080p24 which means he shot with a 3:2 pulldown inside a 60i stream. That's the interlacing every few frames that you are seeing.

If you really wanted to edit at 24fps, or rather 23.987, he should have shot at 24pA which has an Advanced pulldown, or 2:3:3:2, which FCP can then extract the full progressive frames for a true 24p clip.

What you have is a 24p look, you don't have 24p source material. Sorry my friend, stick with a 29.97 timeline and live and learn.

I'd ask. You're certainly not stuck with a 29.97 timeline if you want 24p. You just need to learn to use Cinema Tools if it fact it was shot 24p standard instead of 24pA. (There was a happy 24p standard universe long before 24pA existed.) There's a how-to article on this site:

[www.lafcpug.org]

-Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
Editors Store- Gifts and Gear for Editors: [www.editorsstore.com]

Yup, what Noah said. Just because Final Cut Pro, in a glaring technical omission that makes me shake my head every time I think of it, can't remove 3:2 itself, that doesn't mean that 3:2 can't or shouldn't be removed. To the contrary, it's absolutely trivial with the right tools. Cinema Tools can do it, as can Compressor. After Effects also does a great job, though it takes more steps to set it up if your intention is to use After Effects just to remove the 3:2 and nothing else.

Just heard back from my DP. It was shot in 24p standard.

But what I find curious is that I get the frame blending in 30 fps timelines or 24fps timelines. Same issue.

I've tried importing using the Log & transfer pref. "remove advanced pulldown" - but I now assume that that's only for 24pA (?) Anyway, it didn't help.

So... If I want to cut 24 I have to go thru Cinema tools, right? If I want to go 29.97... how do I get the video to play correctly in 29.97. As I said, I get the frame issues in both.

Quote

But what I find curious is that I get the frame blending in 30 fps timelines or 24fps timelines. Same issue.

Putting 60i material in a 24p timeline in Final Cut is a great way to encrapify your footage. Don't do that.

And what you're seeing in a 60i timeline isn't "frame blending." It's 3:2 pulldown. It is "playing correctly." It looks perfect on your broadcast monitor, right?

If you want to edit this material at 24p, you need to remove that pulldown using Cinema Tools, Compressor or After Effects. Or, probably, one of a variety of other tools or techniques, but those are the three I know and love.

In regard to the 29.97 playback issue: Ahhh... perhaps that's part of my issue. I'm not playing back on a broadcast monitor. Just a computer monitor. Is that right?

The thing is you have 60i/29.97 footage- 24p with a 3:2 pulldown. That doesn't go away by just placing it into a 24p timeline. In fact as Jeff says it gets crapified because the cadence is sort of broken by forcing it to 24 frames per second playback. Use the CinemaTools tutorial I mentioned to reverse telecine to 24p from 29.97/24p standard, or stay in a 29.97 timeline and you'll be fine.

Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
Editors Store- Gifts and Gear for Editors: [www.editorsstore.com]

Not to sound daft (anymore than I already have) but do I do the cinema tools processing to already ingested clips or can I do them to the original P2 media? I assume so.

but... I've tried doing it to the ingested files and Cinema Tools gives me a error message: "file has a temporal compression". Arrrg.

Already ingested clips is fine. But make a copy of the first one before you start the process. It's not intuitive at all and you can easily wreck a clip- it's also a destructive process that can't be undone. And before you ask it- this is exactly why we always say shoot 24pA because this Cinema Tools method is a real PITA.

Regarding temporal compression- are you sure these are not 60p clips. If so, they cannot be reverse telecined because they are not 24p standard. Also make sure you have the latest version of Cinema Tools for best results.

Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
Editors Store- Gifts and Gear for Editors: [www.editorsstore.com]

> Already ingested clips is fine. But make a copy of the first one before you start the process. It's
> not intuitive at all and you can easily wreck a clip- it's also a destructive process that can't be
> undone.

A Batch Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools creates new 23.98fps copies of the media; it doesn't replace or modify the original 29.97fps clips.


www.derekmok.com

re: temporal compression - yes according to both the DP and what the file tells me in the Log and Transfer window they are 60i.

>I've tried doing it to the ingested files and Cinema Tools gives me a error message: "file has a
>temporal compression".

Well, I'll tell you something about temporal compression and DvcproHD. Since last year, I realized that I can't conform DvcproHD clips in Cinema Tools. Cinema Tools will report that the clip is temporally compressed, which is BS, since it's DvcproHD.

Workaround- export a SCQT movie and check "recompress all frames" (or drop a 3 way CC to force a render, then export). Then you can conform those clips.



www.strypesinpost.com

Oh my gosh. The only way I've been able to do the Cinema tools bit was to cut the ingested file into a timeline, add color correction filter(without actually changing anything), rendering, exporting a self contained QT then bringing it into Cinema Tools. Yikes. It works this way but talk about labor intensive. If I don't do all these steps I keep getting the temporal compression message. There's got to be a better way!

As I mentioned- export>QT movie, check "self contained", CHECK "recompress all frames". That's basically does the same thing as applying a 3 way CC filter.



www.strypesinpost.com

Just to elaborate a little, what that does is force Final Cut Pro to fully decode each frame of footage, then re-encode it through the DVCPRO HD encoder. It's equivalent to dubbing a DVCPRO HD tape from one deck to another over SDI: technically not lossless, but you probably won't see a difference.

Jeff Harrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Putting 60i material in a 24p timeline in Final
> Cut is a great way to encrapify your footage.
> Don't do that.


My favorite new word of the day, "encrapify"!!

debe

Thanks Jeff for the elaboration. Yup, basically, adding a 3-way CC filter without any settings decodes each frame and re-encodes it. Same goes for recompress all frames.

Sorry, was a little caught up just now. Just finished a grading session and watched wow... MJ at Superbowl on Youtube. What a performer.

Anyway, an alternate way to get those clips out, is to batch export from the FCP browser. It gives you an option to recompress all frames, and set a destination in your finder.

I think this issue came up early last year. I could conform dvcproHD (50fps to 25p) until I suddenly couldn't.



www.strypesinpost.com