New Academic Price for FCS Kills it For This Teacher

They've raised the Academic price from $699 to $899. I teach editing on FCP at an arts college. When my students have asked how much it costs for when they graduate, I'd always say buy it while you're a student cuz it's ONLY $699. And they'd cringe--they're students and they're drowning in debt. But a couple of them would buy it. No one will buy it now -- and so why should I teach it to them. I'm going to change the course and teach on iMovie. At least they'll be able to use it when they graduate.

Mitchell Rose
[www.mitchellrose.com]

Considering the kind of professional application Final Cut Pro is used for, under $1000 is still a reasonable price. Even for an editor starting out, two to three days on a paying editing job will pay the software off.

The problem with iMovie? Nobody who's serious about editing will ever hire an editor who only uses iMovie. So as an investment, it's a poor choice for teaching a class. In fact, I think along precisely the opposite line from your view: If school is the only place they'll be able to learn/use/touch this software for a few years, then why not provide the opportunity? It's far, far easier to learn FCP and then try to adapt to iMovie, rather than the other way around. So, why not teach on Final Cut Pro, while encouraging broke students to keep up their editing craft with a cheaper software like iMovie, if they can't afford the real thing?

Many students I've seen learned on iMovie and then thought they could edit. Then they moved on to Final Cut Pro and discovered that riding a tricycle's given them a false sense that they could ride a motorcycle as well.


www.derekmok.com

You're right about learning the fundamentals on FCP.

Also... I'm not training editors, I'm teaching artists, primarily young choreographers to edit art projects and dance-films. They loved the power of FCP but as independent artists they won't be able to use it.

Mitchell Rose
[www.mitchellrose.com]

and these are the same students with iphones, prada bags, and SUVs. Don't worry, their parents will buy it for them.

Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Instructor

Stop learning from TV shows -- I'm talking about the real world. None of my art students have Prada bags or drive SUVs. Most of them do their school work and then go to their jobs, racking up a hundred thousand dollars in student loans and more. And now, with this economy, more and more of them are not coming back to school.

Mitchell Rose
[www.mitchellrose.com]

"Stop learning from TV shows?" What does that even mean?

I teach college classes too. I see plenty of 19 yr olds with iphones, prada bags, SUVs, gym memberships, PSPs, and more.

If they rack up $100k for school, then software for their studies is part of the deal like those other things called books.

Regardless, I have your answer - use Final Cut Express - $179. Problem solved.

Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Instructor

> Also... I'm not training editors, I'm teaching artists, primarily young choreographers to edit art
> projects and dance-films. They loved the power of FCP but as independent artists they won't be
> able to use it.

I used to teach visual-arts students on editing. The fundamentals are the same. Teach them right, teach them the difficult but correct way to do things. Then when they go on to do their actual projects, they'll fly -- and they'll have the basic skills to ground them.

Teaching iMovie is a waste of time. I've been working with a musician who edits her own videos. Her music is great, she collaborates with good musicians and producers...but her editing is completely wack. I shot this stuff for her and even offered to cut it, but she insisted on doing it herself, and unfortunate it makes everything look bad because she didn't even know how to overlap audio, not to mention visual grammar.

Train them properly. Whether they can afford the good software is their problem, not yours. And again, I guarantee you if you can get them to basic competence in Final Cut Pro, they'll master iMovie on their own in half a day or a day.

Just as you're saying yourself -- they're racking up student loans and holding down jobs at the same time while taking your class. Don't teach them a b.s. "skill" they won't be able to use in the "real world"; give them their money's worth. iMovie is for kiddies playing around with YouTube. Teach them the professional tool and they'll pick up the consumer novelty with no effort. Teach them the consumer novelty and their work will be unshowable, and they will have paid for the class with no real benefit.


www.derekmok.com

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No one will buy it now -- and so why should I teach it to them. I'm going to change the course and teach on iMovie. At least they'll be able to use it when they graduate.

Tough love time:

FCP by itself is growing to become the industry standard and you get 5 ADDITIONAL APPS ALONG WITH IT...so if you don't teach it, you are short-changing your students. They will NOT get a job using iMovie...period. It is worth every penny - will be recouped on their FIRST GIG / PROJECT. Your students will have wasted their time and money on your class if you teach iMovie.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> They will NOT get a job using iMovie...period.

Well, he did say his students were choreographers, so they're not looking for jobs as editors. But the argument is the same. If your students were cutting at an iMovie level, their work will look awful. Every time I see those stock titles on YouTube (we've all seen them -- the default transitions and effects that all amateurs go ga-ga over), I automatically lower my expectation of the piece, knowing it's not professional. And I'll pick the piece apart. You don't want your students to present their choreography/art work that way.

> Your students will have wasted their time and money on your class if you teach iMovie.

Couldn't agree more. You're the instructor, you have to keep your standards high in the class. How the students pay for some of the tools is their issue. If somebody advertised a class for DVD design and I find he's teaching how to use iDVD templates, I'd ask for my money back.


www.derekmok.com

You're right. It is good to teach at a high level. And the solution probably is Final Cut Express. What we'll primarily be losing is DVD authoring and the terrific slow-motion that Motion offers (dancers love slow-motion).

The course is advertised as Dance-Filmmaking, so it is not tool specific.

Just so it's understood, I'm in an environment where you have to fight for everything you get. People are being laid off at the college. It's a bare-bones scene. Buying and maintaining software for 18 iMacs is expensive. And so I have to make the case to the powers that be that these dancers, many of whom are happy to make cuts-only pieces, are better served by a deeper program. (And, as I stress composition, they should be able to make work with cuts-only... it's just unfortunate to HAVE to be limited.)

I want a job where students have Prada bags. (Wait a minute, no I don't.) Of the 1300 students at my arts college, I have never seen one carry a designer bag. They wear backpacks from Target.

Mitchell Rose
[www.mitchellrose.com]

Cuts only?:

[www.apple.com]

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I want a job where students have Prada bags. (Wait a minute, no I don't.) Of the 1300 students at my arts college, I have never seen one carry a designer bag. They wear backpacks from Target.

So...what's wrong with saving a few buck in school? I'll employ a well educated Editor with a Target backpack over a non-educated poser with a Prada bag all day - every day.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Let's not over exagerate over a measly $200 bucks. Those that were going to buy it at 699 will still buy it at $899.

While it is a bummer, let's be realistic here.

Sorry, I think that's stupid pricing. Lower the actual price but RAISE the academic? Making it only a $100 difference? Avid Media Composer full version is $2500...student price is $249. Because Avid knows that most students start on FCP and then want to continue to do so when they graduate. Avid is trying to woo more people back...and at that pricing, they will.

Don't teach iMovie...have the students buy the Avid software. They will be prepared for the market with that software too. And from Avid, learning FCP is easy. FCP to Avid, that is hard.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

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Avid is trying to woo more people back...and at that pricing, they will.

Avid is DESPERATE, bro...@ $12 per share . I think Academic price should at the MOST be HALF of the street price.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Gotta disagree with Shane here.

Yes, Avid is also professional. But your students are working at a level where Final Cut Pro is much, much more common. For example, if they need to hand their work off to a pro for titles, further editing, colour correction or web compression, a Final Cut operator would be much easier to find.

Good point about the pricing. Hopefully Apple is listening.


www.derekmok.com

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For example, if they need
> to hand their work off to a pro for titles,
> further editing, colour correction or web
> compression, a Final Cut operator would be much
> easier to find.

In a professional setting. But that would never happen with my students.


> Hopefully Apple is listening.

That's all I was hoping would happen with this thread.

Mitchell Rose
[www.mitchellrose.com]

Disagree all you want. But in LA, Avid still has a huge market share. NY too. FCP is gaining ground, but I still get a lot of calls for Avid jobs, and I know many MANY FCP editors who don't get work because the companies they apply to use Avid.

Best to know both. And if cheapness is the only thing holding you back in the academic world, then get Avid and teach Avid. Not iMovie...not if they want to be professional editors.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

> But in LA, Avid still has a huge market share.

Of course. But I can't tell you how many times people I know have dashed around town looking for an Avid editor. There were dozens of FCP setups and operators they could have used, but no Avid guys. At the low end of the spectrum, I don't see much Avid.


www.derekmok.com

Quote

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For example, if they need
> to hand their work off to a pro for titles,
> further editing, colour correction or web
> compression, a Final Cut operator would be much
> easier to find.

Quote

In a professional setting. But that would never happen with my students.

Then why teach editing at all if you don't inspire your students to have the OPTION of being Pros at it? All due respect...you don't teach a software because it's CHEAP...you teach it because it's used in the industry and students graduate with a SKILL and can get WORK...not having to learn an industry standard software AFTER graduating. If you are focusing on DANCE first and editing is an afterthought, then this whole point is moot and it doesn't matter what you teach for editing. All I know is if I were teaching, I would want my kids to get the most for their money. I don't know about anyone else, but I went to film school not only for techniques, but to get my hands on the LATEST GEAR (at that time it was Avid Media Composer and Quantel Editbox). Shane is right in the fact that a seasoned editor should have both FCP & Avid experience.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I think it's not wise to charge *more* for academic pricing on FCP. All it does is encourage more pirating and less legit adoption of the folks who will go on and be next generation's editors.

Learning iMovie is worthless for technique or for skillset. FCE not a whole lot wiser for long term job market because it omits so many formats and workflows you need to know how to use to get jobs. Scratching head....

Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
Editors Store- Gifts and Gear for Editors: [www.editorsstore.com]

If I was struggling to pay for my education, I would be so frustrated if I was in debt with school loans so I could learn imovie or FC Express.

Give the kids their money's worth. Let them learn FCP or Avid.


If I was teaching film, I wouldn't use Dance Dance Revolution to teach my student choreography in a scene.

When I went to College, you either bought what the Prof. told you to, or you got left behind.
Yes, it cost more then back then, but after doing the math, to still about the same, in today's
$$$.

The price difference is only $100. The one difference between the Academic v the Regular,
when the next version of FCSP comes out, the upgrade is cheaper for the Regular version,
since you can not upgrade from the Academic, so you would have to buy the new Academic version, if you are still in school.

Buy the regular version and save over the long haul!

That's my $100 comment.

Russ Andris

Hey son, what did you learn this year in school?

I spent the year learning, iMovie.

So I guess you'll be living with us for the rest of your life... WTF!

I agree with Shane. It's ridiculous that the retail version goes down $300 while the academic version goes up $200. If there is still no upgrade path for the academic version, it is absolutely not worth it, and nobody should buy it. It's actually a rip off without an upgrade path.

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If there is still no upgrade path for the academic version, it is absolutely not worth it, and nobody should buy it. It's actually a rip off without an upgrade path.

And I think we have the answer to the question.

Note well, though, that Apple hasn't given any indication that I'm aware of that they plan to discontinue their aggressive site licensing program for educational institutions. The schools themselves are still going to get dozens or hundreds of copies of Final Cut for very economical prices. But yeah, student copies are clearly not something Apple wants to sell.

Seems the Academic price is in keeping with the soon to be passed California Budget which slashes billions from Education.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Well put, Michael...which is one of the reasons we really haven't tried hard to move out to Cali...the school system sux and it's losing money / funding every day.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

They raised it $200.00?? What?? Seeing how the retail dropped I was expecting at least $50.00 off--- my students will never buy that, they'll go for Avid, which i need them to buy anyway. Agree with Mitchell and Noah here, but I wouldn't deprecate Express-- it's a well-featured lean and mean true training wheels version of FCP and doesn't clutter with all the high-end features and finishing/delivery apps-- tools we've come to love. Teachers can concentrate on editing wisdom and some useful technique which transfers easily to Pro Apps.

It doesn't make sense to penalize the edu market you've spent so long cultivating. A serious misstep. It also feels venal-- Apple Ed may have discovered that, during hard times, parents get nervous and send their kids off to learn pro skills, so the money is in Ed. Apple used to treat Ed as a Mac incubator, and the software got the halo effect. But by pricing FCS higher, they make competing Mac software more attractive and then FCP loses seats. Avid is now better positioned to gain real ground in Ed.

Hope Marketing gets its noodle straightened. I like to see the kids learn both, and that means a quick Ed pricing adjust.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Nudge a Canvas layer by subpixel with Command-Option-Arrows !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

What does Apple have against Prada anyway?

Mitchell Rose
[www.mitchellrose.com]

I can be an official testament to the imovie/fcp argument. when I was in high school I competed in the SkillsUSA/VICA television production competitions. there was no standard in what programs were allowed to be used and at my first state competition we had to do a commercial for Elon University. I used FCP and all my competition used imovie or pinnacle. times up turn in your projects and I'm one very extremely important voice over short(basically the entire audio track for my commercial). I managed to take first and get the spot to nationals above every one else. The quality of their projects just didn't match up

moral to the story: just like it was stated before, if you want your students to deliver professional quality then they need to work with professional tools. imovie is for 8yo kids playing around on youtube with there mom's handycam

so yeah, please go at least FCE. I really wish i could give some type of comment on Avid, but thats probably the only software i haven't had to use in my career so far