Upgrading to FCS3/FCP7

Is this a major upgrade requiring a complete install or is this more like upgrading from 6.02 to 6.06?

There doesn't appear to be anything that would require a complete re-install..?

It's a major release. I wouldn't install it over an existing system; I'd do a clean build. But I'm very conservative like that.

Yes, it is a major upgrade. I just did an install this afternoon on my test machine. The main install with all content took about 50 GB of disk space (if I remember correctly), with an additional 5 to 7 GB for the Documentation and Extras folders from the main install disc. The entire process took about 1 hour and 40 minutes (installing from the 7 DVDs). I suspect that installing from disc images should be quite a bit faster (once you've spent the time copying the install discs).

On page 13 of the "Installing Your Software" pamphlet, it mentions that the installer updates various components from a previous installation (and may replace existing components/apps). I can't verify what actually happens, as I did my install on a Mac Pro that didn't have any previous FCS apps.

The same pamphlet (also in PDF on the primary installer disc) mentions on page 5 that "These discs contain the files required to install Final Cut Studio on Intel-based Mac computers."

Since this implies that everything is now Intel-only, I did a "Get Info..." on DVD Studio Pro to see if Apple had stripped out the PowerPC code (since it's the only app that didn't get revised). It is still listed as a Universal app.

Surprisingly, all of the other apps in the FCS (2009) are still Universal. I was able to launch and run some*** of them using Rosetta, which then shows a PowerPC code app running in Activity Monitor...

This would tend to go against everything I've heard or read about the new FCS (2009)...

So, maybe the installer won't run on a PowerPC Mac, but the apps seem like they would (I don't have a PowerPC Mac to test this), as they run under Rosetta...

This is very curious...


-Dave

P.S. - While all of the FCS apps are Universal, some don't run under Rosetta (but may run on a real PPC Mac???)...


*** Here is what the "minimum system check error" message says (running with the "Open with Rosetta checkbox checked in the Get Info window on a Mac Pro):

Quote

Color requires that your system have a CPU type of G5; this system has a CPU type of G4.

A similar message appears for DVD Studio Pro, FCP, and Soundtrack Pro.

Apple Qmaster, Compressor, Cinema Tools, and Motion work under Rosetta.

Hmm...

Wow, nice find Dave. Thanks. Guess a hack is in the works somewhere.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Guys, FCS 2009 was not designed to run on Power PC Macs at all. FCS 2 is the last version that runs on Power PC.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead, DV Products
Adobe
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe After Effects and Premiere Pro Community Blog
Follow Me on Twitter!

Not designed...or not supported?

It's gonna be hard for people to let go of their PPCs. If my Quad PPC hadn't blown up a month ago, I would be desperately searching for hacks as well...but it blew up for reason. There are no accidents - everything happens for a reason. Time to run the software on a machine it was designed to FLY on.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Quote

Not designed...or not supported?

No offense intended, Andy, but it kinda boggles my mind that anybody would bet their business on either.

Playing devil's advocate for a few minutes... ;-)

(Yeah, I probably wouldn't try to run things in an unsupported "mode."

However, the apps are all Universal, meaning they contain both Intel and PowerPC code.

If this is supposed to be an Intel-only release, why include Universal versions of the apps? DVD Studio Pro is the only unchanged app, so leaving it as Universal is not such a big deal. And, part of the appeal of Snow Leopard is that all PowerPC code will be stripped from the OS, which is why Apple is touting the "smaller" OS installation for Snow Leopard.

Again, all this is cool... no problem with the Intel-only mandate...

But, I suspect the engineers put out Universal apps and marketing poo-poo-ed that idea, setting a flag in the installer to not run on a PowerPC Macs (gotta sell new hardware, after all). Besides, running on an Intel Mac will be much faster (and you get the transcode to ProRes on capture feature and AVCHD support only available on Intel Macs, just to name a couple of benefits beside performance increases).

Yes, PowerPC Macs are pretty much "dead," as far as Final Cut Studio is concerned... At any time, Apple could update the apps so any PowerPC functionality disappears... Risk a professional system with a "hack"? Probably not a good idea, as Jeff stated.

However... ;-)

(Taking the title of an upcoming film... "I Can Do Bad All By Myself"

If you are adventurous and have time to waste and want to rebuild you entire system (my disclaimer), then you could use Pacifist to extract the FCS 2009 installation and put all the pieces where they are supposed to go...

Will it work? I don't know and am not going to test it... ;-)

User beware!!!


-Dave

As we have seen before though, if you know how, you can often just remove the start up check for versions and run things on 'unsupported' systems.

I think the real thing here is that if functionality of any part of the new release can't be fully guaranteed on an older system, then it's business madness to even allow installation, because the internet would collapse under the weight of the 'I cant grade my slowmo multicam Red footage on my tibook using FCP7 and stuff!! WTF?@!!" messages.

"No offense intended, Andy, but it kinda boggles my mind that anybody would bet their business on either."

just curious as I have three Intel newer model laptops and one older "still works fine" G-5 tower -- which we barely use any more -- and if I want to use a tower must dump another 3grand plus into this 299.00 upgrade to make it work with the new system and have projects that interchange with our on the road laptop editors Wondering if it's just smarter to by a big iron AJA box -everything in and out and get rid of the tower all together for the few times we need to get analog material in and out of the machine (BETA etc) save the cash and get another high powered laptop instead

If you use Pacifist to hack the install, you can get it installed onto a PPC machine. And apparently someone has it working. But the fact is that it wasn't TESTED on PPC machines, nor is it SUPPORTED. That is why the preventative measures to stop the install.

[forums.creativecow.net]

So install at your own risk. If you install it and things don't work, you can't call Apple for support...they won't help (unsupported). And if you ask us and we find out that you are using this on a PPC well...the reason will be clear why it isn't working.

As stated, I don't know why someone would risk their business over this. FCS 2 is still a fine application that I am still using now at work to edit and online broadcast TV shows. It didn't suddenly stop working. And we plan on using this until the current season ends...which is about November.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you use Pacifist to hack the install, you can
> get it installed onto a PPC machine. And
> apparently someone has it working. But the fact
> is that it wasn't TESTED on PPC machines, nor is
> it SUPPORTED. That is why the preventative
> measures to stop the install.
>
> [forums.creativecow.net]
>

The post on the COW was a bit late... I already mentioned this above (though I didn't actually test it on a PPC).

Since everyone else likes to speculate without any real knowledge (at most, hearsay), I'll chime in myself and state that the apps are Universal because development has been ongoing for a couple of years. It seems reasonable that the final decision to remove PPC support wasn't made until recently (sometime this year), as work on Snow Leopard hadn't progressed to the point of beta status until the end of May. And, little, if any testing outside of Apple was done for the PPC code (as far as we know, which is close to nothing). The decision to drop PPC support could have been made by marketing, and may not be due to any engineering issues (save those that already involved PPC Macs using FCS 2)...

If the engineers could have avoided dealing with PPC code at all, they would. Compiling a Universal app DOES require dealing with compilation bugs/issues, at least. Why go through that aspect of "testing" if not for some good reason?

So, the parts that require an Intel Mac for FCS (2009) are similar to those for FCS 2 (save AVC Intra). Transcoding HDV to ProRes on capture and transcoding AVCHD on capture still require an Intel Mac.

And, it is pretty obvious that Apple doesn't support FCS (2009) on PPC Macs... But, if people test the install and it works, then it's up to them... most of us are adults and understand the issues and potential pitfalls involved...

And, yes, it is very likely that after Snow Leopard is released that FCS apps will be built as Intel-only.

It may be that the Intel-only versions will happen at the next release (which could be as soon as April/May/June next year)... But, from now onward, PPC Macs are no longer really supported...

Ah, the fun of speculating about which we know so very little... it is fun, though... well, not as fun as actually doing real work... ;-)


-Dave

As stated, I don't know why someone would risk their business over this. FCS 2 is still a fine application that I am still using now at work to edit and online broadcast TV shows.


Shane

-- the reason for asking -- updating two laptop machines - and often having to bring that work to the tower back at the office (the G-5) editing on the laptops will create timelines that will be incompatible with FCS 2 - thus putting that machine out of business (unless you export via xml I suppose) -- only inquired to see if it might work rather than dropping another 3 to 4 grand on a new tower we use only occasionally