Long File Names

Hello to all,

I read somewhere that long file names can be problematic. Is this true? For instance; Howard Hewett Oh Holy Night. Too long? Thoughts?

As always, thanks in advance!

Peace,
Lisha

In what context? Cause I'm pretty sure if you give me a minute I can concoct some scenario in which a long file name can be inconvenient.

There's a 31 character limit on Mac for file names including extension. Also I would recommend against spaces anywhere in a file name. That will mess you up with some FTP and web transfers as well as choke some LTO and other archival systems. You should always use an underscore instead.

Noah

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>There's a 31 character limit on Mac for file names including extension.

It's 255. HFS+ supports long file names.

[support.apple.com]

But try to keep it short as it can screw up on FTP, no spaces, no dots, no forward slashes, always have a file extension at the end (and zip it up if you send it over the net)...



www.strypesinpost.com

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There's a 31 character limit on Mac for file names including extension.

That hasn't been true for more than ten years now. The maximum file name length on a Mac OS X system on an HFS Plus filesystem is 255 UTF-16 characters.

It's not that Mac OS gives you that kind of limitation. It's that on a human organizational level, you can only realistically distinguish file names of a certain length.

It's always a balance between comprehensibility and the necessary detail to describe a file's contents.


www.derekmok.com

>It's that on a human organizational level, you can only realistically distinguish file names of a
>certain length.

Actually, I had another reason to name files a certain way- so that I can sort them out in the Finder. On a recent project, the Finder was actually my best friend when it came to finding footage from a certain shoot date or an episode or a scene. Basically I crammed in the shoot date and card number, type of shot, episode, scene and shot number right into the file name. I found digging out files in the finder to be more efficient than to launch 3-4 logging projects.



www.strypesinpost.com

Derek's right, but some programs for Mac don't like 'em beyond 31 characters. I find when I generate PDF's from print, for instance, I get export issues with long file names.

- Loren
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Ancient, obsolete, poorly written software doesn't change the fact that the limit is 255 characters and not 31.

Very true. The OS allows it.

"640K ought to be enough memory for anybody" -- Attributed to Bill Gates way back when.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

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> Actually, I had another reason to name files a certain way- so that I can sort them out in the
> Finder.

Sure, I do the same. Besides, OS organization means alpha-numeric organization, which is universal.

However, visual convenience has to play a part. For example, I'd use "Reel 001 Clip 01" as a file name, but not "Reel 001 Amsterdam Trip with Eloise and George January 2008 Illinois Happiest Days 01 Best Lighting Camera 1" as a clip name. Even if all your numbers are hunky dory, unless your windows are extra fat, you won't see the differentiation with such a long prefix.


www.derekmok.com

BTW, folks, Shane has a DVD, which will sort out all media management queries...

Okay... Here's a typical example..

"Reel 001 Amsterdam Trip with Eloise and George January 2008 Illinois Happiest Days 01 Best Lighting Camera 1"

I'd name it "AT08_Sc05_jan03-01_2S-Eloise-George_CamA_Sh01_Tk05". Something like that. The shot and take number keeps the name unique, a simple shot description (or location description if i'm working on a docu). I may actually go with more abbreviations with a little text file in the project folder to describe the naming procedure and a sticky on the workstation for the assistants.



www.strypesinpost.com

["Reel 001 Amsterdam Trip with Eloise and George January 2008 Illinois Happiest Days 01 Best Lighting Camera 1" ]

Holy Cow. That's what a codebook is for!

I wouldn't bother with but an eight of that info-- it's can all be made availale in the Bin Comments and Log Notes columns.

OK, I'm biased; if you're dong home movies, I guess you can do it.

If you're cutting to a script, it's just camera #, scene # and take #-- or just a production # if you're in the UK. They streamline slating to one consecutive number per shot-- at least that's what I've read, having never cut overseas. Thought that was kind of elegant.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Nudge a Canvas layer by subpixel with Command-Option-Arrows !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Great thread!!!!! Thanks everyone!!!!

Peace,
Lisha

Filename length is a Unix restriction (OS X = Unix), and case sensitive = 255 characters. Use them wisely and if you even begin to approach that limit then you need to see a therapist or should most likely be doing something else for a living.

>and case sensitive

It depends on how you format your drive. Usually you don't want it case sensitive.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote

Filename length is a Unix restriction (OS X = Unix)

These days "Unix" is just a brand name that refers to a specification. Mac OS X is one of a dozen or so operating systems that conform to the Unix spec. The only mention of filename lengths in the Unix specification is that they must be able to be at least 14 characters long, and either case-sensitive or case-preserving. HFS Plus (the Mac OS X native filesystem) is case-preserving, not case-sensitive.

You are correct about the UK ... at least it was done like that 20 years ago when I was British. The system on a feature - or pretty much anything - was the Slate One was the first Set-up of Day One. When you moved in for a closeup, the Slate changed to Slate Two.

I prefer the American system and was initially kind of amazed when I got here that Slate thirty three actually referred to Scene thirty three. For a while I pretended that I understood, but it took directing two movies before I understood the A Apple, B etc.within a Slate number.

Best

Harry

PS. I love Derek's hysterically long file name.

Harry Bromley-Davenport.

I can only speak of my own experience. You never know how a system will react to a long file name - especially moving back & forth between Mac & PC servers. PC's prefer the old "8.3" naming convention. I have had files go totally invisible until I shortened the name then it magically appeared. My rule of thumb regarding file names:

* Keep them as short as humanly possible
* only use consonants if it's ridiculously long
* abbreviate where necessary
* fill spaces with underscores (no spaces at all)
* DO NOT use "/ *()&@" characters

Example of a spot I did recently:

Original file name:
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10 Launch Trailer 720p 29.97

Final file name:
TW10_lnch_trlr_720p_2997.mov

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

For me, the problem with using such abbreviated names is that it forces you to do a lot more brain work. Especially if, for example, you're doing longer formats, or you're putting together, say, 50 trailers -- which will all then have "trlr" on them. Plus, if you're inconsistent with the abbreviations, that could affect system searches.

I'd usually suggest a balance. Use words and abbreviations, but not overly abbreviated forms that don't make words. In the above example I'd go with:

woodstour10_trailer_v101_081009.mov
woodstour10_trailer_v101_081009_dvcprohd.mov
woodstour10_trailer_v101_081009_h264.mp4

That way, if 16 months from now we want Tiger Woods, a search for "woods" would come up with something. And in my case, if I'm not working at Electronic Arts internally, I'd also be tempted to use a prefix "ea_woodstour10". There are only so many projects with the name "Woods" on them.

Editorial also has different needs from the more specialized departments. FX artists, for example, are often careless with their convention; I have one guy who's a great artist and designer, but his clips are just "clip1", "clip1-1". No dates, no version numbers, no project name, nothing. When I receive his files, I have to re-organize them so that they'd make sense to editorial over time, and to distinguish his exports from project to project.

As for PC versions, you can always change the names to shortened permutations when going cross-platform.


www.derekmok.com

I gotta disagree with you, brother. Waaaaaaaay too much info Derek. That middle name is way too long and would cause problems on our server. In my convention, TW10 is searchable all by itself...brings up every single project I worked on for 2010. Just like my older files say TW09 or MAD09 / MAD10 for Madden NFL 2009 / Madden NFL 2010 or NAS09 for Nascar Kart Racing 2009.

Even if I was freelancing...I wouldn't add "ea_" to that convention. Too many characters.

...but that's just me & my convention

What I can say is when you pick a convention, stick to it cause when you end up with tens or even hundreds of thousands of files you want them all completely searchable and visible to all systems.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> In my convention, TW10 is searchable all by itself

If you already know the project is called TW10 in the file system. Two years later.

Which, within agencies and post houses, is actually just fine. Some places even use ISCII or ad codes, and as long as there's a record somewhere, all well and good. If all departments use the same code, and only use every code once, then as long as everybody knows and agrees that "MAD10" is "Madden 10" and not "Mad Magazine 10th Anniversary", you'll be okay.

On the other hand, I deal with a lot of people who a) don't remember anything about what they called a project; b) wouldn't think to search for "trlr" or "tw10"; and c) don't even put dates or version numbers.

There's a reason I have to put all that information in. "101" is insufficient, because some departments just use that to distinguish shots within the same project. That little "v" makes all the difference.

And just in the last six months, I've done about 14 projects for Verizon. Just using "VER" ain't gonna cut it, especially from the confusion with "Verizon" and "Version". I have to put "vzw_intervention_v101_081009.mov" or "vzw_radio_greatdeals_v101_081009". If the server can't handle it, I'll temporarily make a version with a shorter name. But again, I have to organize files to be stored for months, sometimes years, and I can't guarantee it'll be me looking for that file. And over 40 Verizon projects, "vzw_spot" is going to be completely insufficient, since a client will be calling the company about "Verizon Intervention", not "Verizon 10".


www.derekmok.com

The bottom line here is that if you're working at a facility, follow the coding system your facility uses. If you're working freelance, come up with your own coding system and follow it rigorously.

The length of file names is totally irrelevant unless you have to interface with some kind of obsolete technology, in which case you already know what the limits are. Joey's invocation of the quaint "8.3" meme is endearing but rather silly, in my opinion.

Quote

Joey's invocation of the quaint "8.3" meme is endearing but rather silly, in my opinion.

Sorry jeff...it still works. We had a video file go missing on a PC server...could see it from our Macs but couldn't see it from the PCs. I suggested bringing the name down to 8.3. Hey...look at that! It magically appeared to the PCs. Not so "quaint & silly" if it works.

This is not an opinion...this happened a few weeks ago. Just trying to cover all bases based on personal experience.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Not that it's any of my business, but I'd recommend replacing your Netware 286 server, Joey.