Having problems with any stills that are 29.97fps on a 30p timeline

I am noticing a bug where on a fresh project that is set to 30p; that when I import
my stills some of them read as 29.97fps, while most of them read 30p.

The problem clips will not render any motion on the timeline, and all the problem
clips (stills) are all 29.97fps on import.

I have tried to export these back out with export/use QT compression/still...
and they still come back as 29.97fps.

Does anyone know of a way to force all the clips to come in at 30p, and not the
troublesome 29.97; which is causing my timeline renders (and me)-great grief.

What you're calling "30p" is 29.97. There's no such video format as exactly-thirty-frames-per-second.

The timeline is set to 2400x600 (three 800x600 screens), left, centre, and right
to be output at 2400x600 proRes 422 30p (NOT 29.97)- this is then brought
intro flash, converted to swift, sent to a matrox and then three projectors
left, centre, and right. simple as pie in theory...

The bottom line is this...

in one of my bins, 80% of the stills import as res1x res2 30fps
..it clearly says this in the bin view
but about 20% of the stills import as 29.97fps.

As a comenserate scientist and as one who will not continue on this
project till this mystery is solved..can you explain why most come in at 30fps
(again this is what bin/list view says) but others come in at 29.97fps.

100% of the problem clips are 29.97fps (again according to FCP bin)

So my first hypothesis is that FCP is getting confused and choosing not
to do dreadfully simple things like motion effects (a simple scale from
say 80% to 100%) ((something 3ds max has NEVER had a problem with))

I am three days from zapping the prefs, so this has been done recently.

Do you need the test scene????






mark@avolution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am noticing a bug where on a fresh project that
> is set to 30p; that when I import
> my stills some of them read as 29.97fps, while
> most of them read 30p.
>
> The problem clips will not render any motion on
> the timeline, and all the problem
> clips (stills) are all 29.97fps on import.
>
> I have tried to export these back out with
> export/use QT compression/still...
> and they still come back as 29.97fps.
>
> Does anyone know of a way to force all the clips
> to come in at 30p, and not the
> troublesome 29.97; which is causing my timeline
> renders (and me)-great grief.

Could be anything, really. Nothing I saw up there was in any way supported by Final Cut Pro. I'm surprised the software's let you get as far as you have, to be perfectly honest.

Why are you abandoning all standards and doing everything in oddball ways?

Sorry, all 30fps video runs at 29.97fps. ALL. Only Black and White of the days of old was 30fps. Add color and WHOOPS, the video signal ran slower. Thus Drop Frame time code was invented.
30p means PROGRESSIVE...as opposed to the normal INTERLACED that video is. Two fields, even and odd. Progressive means that both fields are the same image...but it still runs at 29.97.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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a) This is not a video project, rather a proRes 422 custom setup
for computer playback only. Video out is disabled and all my tests
work fine for splitting 2400x600 from flash into a left, centre, right
to three projectors.

I am still investigating this sudden change in FCPs ability to render
properly..you have to understand that at 2400x600 the timeline
by default is always RED, and FCP disabled RT as this is a custom
resolution- normally for preview I set render quality to 25%,
as these 6 2 minute pieces are rather long...

Trust FCP can handle 2400x600, but make sure video out is set to
none.

I have three weeks to finish, so panic mode has not set in yet.





mark@avolution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The timeline is set to 2400x600 (three 800x600
> screens), left, centre, and right
> to be output at 2400x600 proRes 422 30p (NOT
> 29.97)- this is then brought
> intro flash, converted to swift, sent to a matrox
> and then three projectors
> left, centre, and right. simple as pie in
> theory...
>
> The bottom line is this...
>
> in one of my bins, 80% of the stills import as
> res1x res2 30fps
> ..it clearly says this in the bin view
> but about 20% of the stills import as 29.97fps.
>
> As a comenserate scientist and as one who will not
> continue on this
> project till this mystery is solved..can you
> explain why most come in at 30fps
> (again this is what bin/list view says) but others
> come in at 29.97fps.
>
> 100% of the problem clips are 29.97fps (again
> according to FCP bin)
>
> So my first hypothesis is that FCP is getting
> confused and choosing not
> to do dreadfully simple things like motion effects
> (a simple scale from
> say 80% to 100%) ((something 3ds max has NEVER had
> a problem with))
>
> I am three days from zapping the prefs, so this
> has been done recently.
>
> Do you need the test scene????
>
>
>
>
>
>
> mark@avolution Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am noticing a bug where on a fresh project
> that
> > is set to 30p; that when I import
> > my stills some of them read as 29.97fps, while
> > most of them read 30p.
> >
> > The problem clips will not render any motion on
> > the timeline, and all the problem
> > clips (stills) are all 29.97fps on import.
> >
> > I have tried to export these back out with
> > export/use QT compression/still...
> > and they still come back as 29.97fps.
> >
> > Does anyone know of a way to force all the
> clips
> > to come in at 30p, and not the
> > troublesome 29.97; which is causing my timeline
> > renders (and me)-great grief.

Quote

This is not a video project

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying.

Final Cut is not guaranteed to do this very well. Again, I'm surprised you've gotten as far as you have.

Quote

I am still investigating this sudden change in FCPs ability to render properly

Final Cut is rendering fine. Your timeline isn't proper, though.

Quote

Trust FCP can handle 2400x600

There's no way I would count on that. That's not what Final Cut is for, and if it does it at all, it's purely a coincidence.

When in preproduction I had to pick between Apple Motion, Adobe Flash,
or FCP for doing the timeline. I choose FCP for several reasons
a) with my present video card (a 9800 on the G5) I was limited to
2048 output from motion, and motion on a 9800 card isn't close to
realtime.

b) I could add all the stills on the timeline, add all the mattes, etc
and set the render to 25% quality for preview.

The output at 2400x600 was sent as QT 422 proRes, ingested into
flash on a Windows PC and tested for framerate on a nice
Nvidia 9500 card on the PC, the framerate is good.

When I debug this rig, I will debrief...besides they wouldn't have
custom settings if they didn't expect custom uses besides vanilla
HD.

As a 3ds Max animator I have done alot higher res than just
2400x600 (which is only 800x600 left, centre, right)

Max out of the box won't puke until about 8000x8000
as a render.

Anyhow I can not abandon ship now...as the captain I will sink with it
(maybe)



mark@avolution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a) This is not a video project, rather a proRes
> 422 custom setup
> for computer playback only. Video out is disabled
> and all my tests
> work fine for splitting 2400x600 from flash into a
> left, centre, right
> to three projectors.
>
> I am still investigating this sudden change in
> FCPs ability to render
> properly..you have to understand that at 2400x600
> the timeline
> by default is always RED, and FCP disabled RT as
> this is a custom
> resolution- normally for preview I set render
> quality to 25%,
> as these 6 2 minute pieces are rather long...
>
> Trust FCP can handle 2400x600, but make sure video
> out is set to
> none.
>
> I have three weeks to finish, so panic mode has
> not set in yet.
>
>
>
>
>
> mark@avolution Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The timeline is set to 2400x600 (three 800x600
> > screens), left, centre, and right
> > to be output at 2400x600 proRes 422 30p (NOT
> > 29.97)- this is then brought
> > intro flash, converted to swift, sent to a
> matrox
> > and then three projectors
> > left, centre, and right. simple as pie in
> > theory...
> >
> > The bottom line is this...
> >
> > in one of my bins, 80% of the stills import as
> > res1x res2 30fps
> > ..it clearly says this in the bin view
> > but about 20% of the stills import as 29.97fps.
> >
> > As a comenserate scientist and as one who will
> not
> > continue on this
> > project till this mystery is solved..can you
> > explain why most come in at 30fps
> > (again this is what bin/list view says) but
> others
> > come in at 29.97fps.
> >
> > 100% of the problem clips are 29.97fps (again
> > according to FCP bin)
> >
> > So my first hypothesis is that FCP is getting
> > confused and choosing not
> > to do dreadfully simple things like motion
> effects
> > (a simple scale from
> > say 80% to 100%) ((something 3ds max has NEVER
> had
> > a problem with))
> >
> > I am three days from zapping the prefs, so this
> > has been done recently.
> >
> > Do you need the test scene????
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > mark@avolution Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am noticing a bug where on a fresh project
> > that
> > > is set to 30p; that when I import
> > > my stills some of them read as 29.97fps,
> while
> > > most of them read 30p.
> > >
> > > The problem clips will not render any motion
> on
> > > the timeline, and all the problem
> > > clips (stills) are all 29.97fps on import.
> > >
> > > I have tried to export these back out with
> > > export/use QT compression/still...
> > > and they still come back as 29.97fps.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a way to force all the
> > clips
> > > to come in at 30p, and not the
> > > troublesome 29.97; which is causing my
> timeline
> > > renders (and me)-great grief.

Sounds more like a gig for After FX. FCP 6 has a 2K resolution limit.

Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
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I've seen FCP used in myriad ways including custom setups like this, some pretty interesting stuff. But stills? They're progressive. They don't interlace unless you introduce them into an interlaced environment and it sounds like you don't need that-- this is to be a custom computer-driven presentation.

[The problem clips will not render any motion on the timeline, and all the problem
clips (stills) are all 29.97fps on import. ]

Have you animated them with keyframes? I'm trying to get a handle on this. How big are they when you import them?

- Loren

Today's FCP keytip:

Enable timeline A/V links with Shift-L !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Shane Ross -"Sorry, all 30fps video runs at 29.97fps. ALL."

Shane,here are the movie clips specs from Canon...

"Movie recording *
? Available optionally during Live view mode
? 1920 x 1080 (16:9) up to 12 mins (Quicktime 1080p H.264; 38.6 Mbits/sec)
? 640 x 480 (4:3) up to 24 mins (Quicktime 480p H.264; 17.3 Mbits/sec)
? Max file size 4 GB
? Quicktime MOV format (H.264 video, PCM sound)
? 30 fps"

I have edited several projects with this camera. When the original clip info is accessed in QT
it is stated as 30 fps.
When I dropped a clip on a timeline it was conformed to the rate of the clip...30fps
Of course I always convert the clips to Prores and 29.97 but thought I'd share this info with you.

The 5D Mk II is notorious for not recording video. It records the non-standard integer-30 format, as you've discovered.

This is noteworthy specifically because integer-30 is not video.

Okay, what I'm totally not getting here is that your stills have a framerate? How did that happen? What codec is your stills?



www.strypesinpost.com

Yes...stills with a frame rate sound like an oxymoron to me ;-)

In the bin, after you ingest the stills-even before you put them on any timeline,
you can read the said attributes for the stills, under the bin attributes such as offline,
master comment, date, size, etc.

It is odd that my sequence which is set to 30p (progressive just like my stills)
will say some BUT NOT all of my stills are 29.97.
Again this is in the bin, even before they are dropped on the timeline.

Most people work in picons in the bins, but I work in list mode, so I can see the
attributes for each clip, QT, or still that I am working on.




strypes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, what I'm totally not getting here is that
> your stills have a framerate? How did that happen?
> What codec is your stills?

These stills are standard TIFFS.

For an experiment try this-set up any easy set-up you like.
Import some stills, set the bin to list view-I can guarentee that FCP 6
will report a frame rate-It does on mine.

strypes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, what I'm totally not getting here is that
> your stills have a framerate? How did that happen?
> What codec is your stills?

Most of the tiffs are varying size but I keep them around the
1500 px or less on the horizontal.

And yes, I am animating them with simple motion keyframes.

Loren Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen FCP used in myriad ways including custom
> setups like this, some pretty interesting stuff.
> But stills? They're progressive. They don't
> interlace unless you introduce them into an
> interlaced environment and it sounds like you
> don't need that-- this is to be a custom
> computer-driven presentation.
>
>
>
> Have you animated them with keyframes? I'm trying
> to get a handle on this. How big are they when you
> import them?
>
> - Loren
>
> Today's FCP keytip:
>
> Enable timeline A/V links with Shift-L !
>
> Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
> Now available at KeyGuide Central.
> www.neotrondesign.com

As a compromise I set the timeline to 2048x512, and will upres to 2400x600 in post via
QT movie export.

It is a shame that FCP can not do medium res images at 2400x600, and as an animator
first; this is medium res. 4k and higher is high res.

mark,

i believe you CAN get a larger-than-normal sequence frame size,
if you are prepared to try a non standard technique.

make a layered photoshop file with your desired frame size.
bring that into FCP.
it will appear as a sequence with your larger-than-normal frame size.

open it, delete the contents, and save it as a sequence template.

re your stills importing with various frame rates:
imported stills adopt the frame rate of your current sequence pre-set.
that must have changed on you (maybe you trashed prefs?)

however, i don't think it makes any difference at all what frame rate the still images have.


cheers,
nick