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MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline

Posted by dan chapman 
MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 12, 2009 02:16PM
I'm going to shoot some new footage using HD for my 5-years-in-the-making documentary. Everything I've shot so far has been using the DVX100 24pa with the anamorphic lens adapter. All my timelines have the anamorphic box checked.

I'm planning an aerial shot now and want to shoot with a better camera resolution, but I'll need to mix it with the older stuff. I've never done this. How are the two formats combined? Would I down-res the HD with compressor? And how would the anamorphic timeline effect the new footage? Do I add a distort to the new footage?

Dual 2.5 Ghz G5, 5GB SDRAM, FCP 6.0.6, QT 7.6.2, OS 10.4.11
Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 12, 2009 02:24PM
I don't know if you should bother with converting the footage. You should just be able to put the HD clip into your anamorphic SD timeline and making it anamorphic with a Distort setting (probably 33.33) and some scaling. In this case, with not that much footage, I'd just use the clips as they are, render when necessary, rather than muck with the hassles of online/offline.


www.derekmok.com
Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 12, 2009 02:24PM
> Would I down-res the HD with compressor?

Ideally you should. FCP works pants as downscaler (okay, it's fast, but it's not really up in the race for high quality resizing). Also, it depends on whether you shot 1080, or 720. 720 is easier to down scale partly because it is progressive (easier to calculate) and there is less downscaling to do. Basically if it looks jaggedy, and you don't like it too much, you'll need to down scale it properly in Compressor, which will take a while.

> Do I add a distort to the new footage?

In most cases you don't have to and FCP will handle it. But if it starts looking funny on your monitor, check the FAQ. Derek has a good entry on it.

[www.lafcpug.org]



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 23, 2009 10:22AM
Now my cinematographer wants to shoot 720 X 60p. Everything else in my docu is shot SD 24pa with the anamorphic adapter. But we are doing an aerial shoot and he says 24p looks bad with action or moving subjects. This will be a helicopter shot using a gyro.

My new question: Am I asking for trouble mixing SD 24pa anamorphic with HD 60i? And how should I down-convert the HD?

Dual 2.5 Ghz G5, 5GB SDRAM, FCP 6.0.6, QT 7.6.2, OS 10.4.11
Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 23, 2009 10:27AM
Your cinematographer is full of crap. More helicopter shots have been done at 24 frames per second than all other aerial photography combined.

Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 23, 2009 11:05AM
Before I tell my guy that he's full of crap, I really need a second opinion. Anyone?

Here's the request I received from my cinematographer:

"I suggest that we shoot this at 720x60p. If we shoot it at 24p, it will be blurry. This always happens with action or moving subject. It will look different than the stuff shot at 24p, but you can work with that in post. Also, it won't be drastically different. I've seen helicopter footage shot at 24p and it looks really bad. That camera can shoot 1080x60i, but I think it would be better to shoot at 60p."

Dual 2.5 Ghz G5, 5GB SDRAM, FCP 6.0.6, QT 7.6.2, OS 10.4.11
Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 23, 2009 11:11AM
IF you shoot at 720p60, and then drop it into a 24p 23.98 timeline, guess what? It will now be 23.98! So that "smoothness" you got shooting 60fps...gone. OH, and you will need to render the footage, and FCP might not remove pulldown properly (Well, it just won't), so you'll have to use Compressor...thus adding hours to your work just because the guy wanted to shoot 60fps.

I have worked on FILM shoots with aerials shot at...24fps! Looked fine. Worked on shows with battles and canons and aerials shot on DVCPRO HD 720p 23.98. Looked FINE. YES, 23.98 is more stuttery and slightly blurrier than 60fps. That is the nature of the beast. 60fps is ULTRA SMOOTH video. Yucky to tell you the truth. I like 24fps, FILMS are 24fps, most of the docs I worked on the last 4 years...5 years, have been 24fps.

He's halfway full of crap. Yes, it will be blurrier. BUT, you are already working at 23.98, so don't mix frame rates...shoot what will work with what you have.


www.shanerosseditor.com

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Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 23, 2009 11:46AM
>Before I tell my guy that he's full of crap

He is full of crap. If he thinks he can shoot different standards in the same project.

But, the reason you would go for 60p, is for slow motion. You would conform that to 24p. But for normal shots, you would go at 24.



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 23, 2009 12:03PM
Shane Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YES, 23.98 is more
> stuttery and slightly blurrier than 60fps. That
> is the nature of the beast. 60fps is ULTRA SMOOTH
> video. Yucky to tell you the truth. I like
> 24fps, FILMS are 24fps, most of the docs I worked
> on the last 4 years...5 years, have been 24fps.
>
> He's halfway full of crap. Yes, it will be
> blurrier. BUT, you are already working at 23.98,
> so don't mix frame rates...shoot what will work
> with what you have.


Thanks for the reassurances. I'd rather tell him he's halfway full of crap. grinning smiley

I'm making a documentary, not shooting a football game. I think he was considering the life of the footage beyond my docu. I's my footage, but we want to make the most of it while we're up there. We're renting a better camera and the aerial expense, etc. Still, I think I'll stick with 24p.
Re: MIXING SD AND HD in same timeline
October 29, 2009 11:31PM
Here's another hard choice I need to make now (we shoot Sunday):

We have the option of using an HVX200 or an EX-3 for shooting the new HD footage.


The EX-3 is a better camera, but considering that I'll be mixing it with all my DVX100 footage, editing both together, is it crazy to mix my SD DV material with MPEG-2 footage?
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